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probably literally nothing, just like google and LLMs also have had basically zero effect on patients experiences for the same reasons. maybe it varies by location but in my experience doctors will virtually put their fingers in their ears and say BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH if you mention apple watch data before kicking you out. i had one doctor confidently tell me that "apple watch blood pressure measurements had been proven to be inaccurate compared to BP monitors" and that she refuses to look at them for that reason after mishearing something i said. apple watches obviously do not even have the ability to measure blood pressure and never have done, but she was very eager to lie in order to disregard whatever concerns i may have had just in case.


there's really nothing anybody can do. protests dont work, riots dont work, petitions dont work, and theres nobody else to vote for who isn't also a cunt.


I’m just going to say it: you are wrong, protests, public pressure and civil disobedience are why you have many of the right you have today. I get you don’t have the will/energy/possibility to do anything, but don’t go around telling lies about the usefulness of public intervention.


There are a number of issues with this view:

- I've been to many protests in my time and often I believe them to be counter productive e.g. Critical Mass. I travelled to London twice to see what the protest was about. This was in the mid-2000s. I saw lots of annoyed commuters, lots of people getting drunk/high and it was more of a social gathering than a protest.

- Street movements are easily infiltrated by malign actors e.g. The CIA have a term called "initial instigator", this is where you turn a riot into a protest by inserting a person or people that will cause trouble. The CIA (and I would imagine British Intelligence) have handbooks on how to subvert/run a protest/riot. You can find these online.

- Many of the protesters you see maybe part of a rent-a-mob. You can literally go to company, and much like you would for film or TV hire a bunch of people to be in the background.

- I have plenty of will and energy to get involved. However often I find that many leaders make the mistake of being too inclusive. This means that often you will end up with people that will intentionally or unintentionally turn your movement into something else. If you listen to some of the account of people that were at Occupy Wallstreet, this is one of the reasons why the protests failed.


You’re analysing things in a vacuum, there are historical and contemporary examples of public protest, pressure campaigns and civil disobedience leading to policy change, and you’re arguing they’re what, all CIA plants or impossible? If not, please make your point clearer.

Have you any proof that these rent a mob thing exists? You used “maybe part”... Please find a specific service for renting a mob, not a single individual or small group. Or proof that this service exists, because this is an awfully convenient way to bend the narrative to your side “they were all faking it” is almost never a valid hypothesis


> You’re analysing things in a vacuum, there are historical and contemporary examples of public protest, pressure campaigns and civil disobedience leading to policy change, and you’re arguing they’re what, all CIA plants or impossible? If not, please make your point clearer.

I am not analysing things in a vaccum. I gave you some reasons why I don't believe these things are productive today.

One of those is an example from my own personal experience of being at a protest that literally had 1000s of people there.

I don't believe that all of it was CIA plants and never said that.

I explained how street movements are infiltrated by malign actors and how some intelligence agencies have used these techniques.

> Have you any proof that these rent a mob thing exists? You used “maybe part”... Please find a specific service for renting a mob, not a single individual or small group. Or proof that this service exists, because this is an awfully convenient way to bend the narrative to your side “they were all faking it” is almost never a valid hypothesis.

It is well documented. Just not commonly known. TBH you could have looked this up yourself.

It isn't really any different than hiring extras for a TV/Movie production (as I previously stated).

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rent-a-crowd.asp

Companies and political parties have been doing it for quite a while.

e.g.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-aide-says-paid-actors-...

or some of the sites themselves give you examples of where they have done it.

https://www.rentacrowduk.co.uk/hire-a-crowd-case-studies/

Here are some companies that literally offer it as a service, I found these after doing a two minute google:

https://www.envisagepromotions.co.uk/services/crowd-services...

https://www.rentacrowduk.co.uk/

https://dreamsagency.co.uk/hire-a-crowd/

I am sure there are many others.


Oh yeah these services seem totally legitimate… you know what, keep believing what you want buddy, have a good day


Right. Let me get this right:

1) You asked for evidence of a rent-a-crowd / rent-a-mob service. Something which you could have looked up yourself.

2) I gave you links to companies that offer these services. I understand that these websites aren't the best, I literally listed the first 4 that were spat out by when searching. I suspect they probably don't get most of their business through the website. They look like websites I was making for companies back in the late 2000s.

3) Then you make allusions to to me delusional.

I think you are looking for excuses to dismiss my point of view. Probably because you don't agree with it.


I find it insulting that you would send such clearly fake websites, that’s why I’m stopping the conversation. Have a good day


What is fake about them?

I can find two of the agencies on Companies House:

- Dreams Agency - https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...

- Envisage Promotions- https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...

The other one might be a trading name and I can't find anything that matches directly.

Can I have an apology please?


One of them is closed and had a yearly of 5k, not exactly screaming legitimacy.

But the other one… yeah they seem real. So my apologies indeed


> One of them is closed and had a yearly of 5k, not exactly screaming legitimacy.

I've closed businesses after they weren't successful. Doesn't mean it was illegitimate? No. It means they didn't make money.

Even if that one wasn't legit there are plenty of others that one can find easily e.g.

https://crowdsnow.com/

https://crowdsondemand.com/

It isn't very nice when people dismiss things like this when they can be found on duckduckgo.

Normally these businesses are used for media campaigns.

But there is nothing stopping them from being used by political groups, parties etc.

> But the other one… yeah they seem real. So my apologies indeed

Thank you.


Yeah I’m really sorry about that, that argument of payed crowds always seemed so manufactured…

Gotta work a little more on those assumptions


Spoken like a man who doesn't know what kettling is. Or expedited judicial process for (some) rioters, with prison time for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.


> you are wrong, protests, public pressure and civil disobedience are why you have many of the right you have today.

Once upon a time, yes. But they don't work in the modern world we live in now.

Show me a successful protest that achieved change in the past ten years?


Wasn’t turkye’s failed coup less than 10 years ago? Direct result of public intervention

The French yellow vest

The Dutch farmer protests

I can go on if you want


Those are European, cool. Any successful UK protests?

As that is the country we are talking about here.


Brexit


Brexit wasn't a protest. It was a campaign.


Are you going to move the goalpost further if I give you one?


I was specifically targeting protests in the UK. As we are talking about the UK.


And I was specifically talking about UKs lack of protest, see the issue here?


But the UK is not lacking in protest; we do protest.

What I am saying is that protesting is a method of freedom & rebellion that is now flawed for today's modern world. It may work in a few odd countries but overall now achieves nothing.

Protests do not work in these modern times.

It may of worked in the in the 1800's because society was maybe of been more united, less corrupted in power however the power that folks had has been chiseled away and has been decaying ever since.

Adding the fact we are now more divided than ever.

The only kind of protest that would work today are those of who use their wallet. Stop buying from corporations from the likes of Amazon, funding Google. But no, we won't do that; whatever would you do without your Amazon prime.

Instead let's hold a stick with cardboard glued to it and pretend that politicians care. (spoiler: they don't)

Protesting about war and then buying resources to protest about the war off Amazon who back the war is face-palming hilarious.

Otherwise everything is a just waste of time, resources and exposure. But by all means, if it makes yourself feel better then go for it.

And no, I didn't vote for Brexit.


> Instead let's hold a stick with cardboard glued to it and pretend that politicians care. (spoiler: they don't)

If you have too weak internal political support for something cardboard signs do help push something maybe over the edge.


No I get what you’re getting at. I might have a different idea (maybe anachronistic indeed) of what protesting means, having done it in my youth.


how are the plebs meant to operate the state machinations? even Farage went to private school. We are a generation away from being able to make a difference beyond the riots


I really recommend a book called "Moral Ambition" which outlines many examples from history where societal change was made possible through people not protesting or rioting, but through people organising into political organisations which could then implement change - the very first example is of a man who lead the effort for abolition of slavery across the British empire, growing from a single man with an idea to a political force that made the change possible. And that doesn't mean you have to win elections - just grow enough that you are at least consulted on changes like this and treated like a partner not like a pest that has to be squashed and arrested.


They work. But they don't work if your objective is to replace a political party with another one... The problem is the system itself. It needs uprooting.

To quote someone: "You give us rights, only because we gave you riots"


I think the most effective solution is to work to ensure that people who have sensible views and are able to think in a reasoned way on topics like this stand for election themselves.

As much as many people have distaste for the existing parties, a few people getting involved and changing the parties from the inside on one or two topics like this (which are not party political in nature) is likely to be much more effective than standing as or voting for an independent, complaining or protesting.


Anything involved with the electoral process is doomed to fail. The system is designed that way to squash the few voices that want change. It needs uprooting not band-aid.


We just had the government backtrack on stopping giving money to better off pensioners (WFA) and tightening regulations on disability benefits (PIP) under pressure from the backbenchers and the media.

If your preferred cause is not cutting through in that way, it's worth asking what's different about the cause.


Voting for the alternatives won't make any difference either.

The power structure is designed in such a way that it is difficult for the Government itself to do change anything.


Right. The big lie of what's called Our Democracy (in the US, UK, and other Western nations) is that having 51% on your side and winning elections means you get some control over government. What recent years have made clear is that the bureaucratic class does what it wants, and resists most attempts by the people to control it through their representatives, using its media wing to call those anti-democratic and other epithets. At best, you can make temporary changes that the machine will roll back as soon as it can get rid of your representatives.


Then create a new party, give talks about this, mobilize your friends, family, make them understand that civil liberty is literally worth dying for


I really get annoyed when someone suggests this (it not your fault). You are believing what you are told at school about how Politics works. Many of us understand this is unrealistic.

Here is an incomplete list of reasons why I would never get involved directly in politics:

1. It takes literally decades to get a political party off the ground without major backing. All the new parties that you hear of are bankrolled by elite backing.

2. The way the Government and the civil service is setup is designed so you can't actually make any changes. Dominic Cummings has many interviews he did in the last year you can find where he explains how Whitehall is fundamentally broken. I suggest you listen to them.

3. I have a chequed past. Most of my adult life I was abusing alcohol, and as a consequence of that I have done and said lots of stupid things. A good portion of my extended family are criminals (which I don't associate with for obvious reasons). If I or anything connected to me gain any public appeal at all, I would have all the muck which I've put behind me dragged up. I don't want to expose myself or my family to that.


Sorry for your past, happy you got out of it.

1. Listen, yes it’s very hard work, but it’s this or be squeezed until there’s nothing else. And when people start having famines we’ll have a new French Revolution, millions will die, and this will require a lot more energy than doing changes today.

2. Will do, I don’t know enough on that subject to have an opinion on that. But unjust, unmovable systems, like monarchies (wink) have been toppled in the past. Even recently.

3. Sorry I was just using my environment as an example, I meant people that trust you, that you trust. This kind of movement starts small


> Sorry for your past, happy you got out of it.

Thanks.

> Listen, yes it’s very hard work, but it’s this or be squeezed until there’s nothing else. And when people start having famines we’ll have a new French Revolution, millions will die, and this will require a lot more energy than doing changes today.

All parties that you would have heard of, will have major backing from a number of wealthy donors. You also have to have the right people involved. Not everyone should be engaged in politics directly.

I am not under the delusion that I can fix the country. I can't even master the mess in my spare room. The best I can do is try to help my family, friends and community.

As for violent conflict. Many people think there is going to be some sort of violent conflict coming to the UK. David Betz has several interviews on YouTube on the subject. I've emailed him personally (about something unrelated) and he is a serious person. I don't know whether he is right or not and only time will tell.

> Will do, I don’t know enough on that subject to have an opinion on that. But unjust, unmovable systems, like monarchies (wink) have been toppled in the past. Even recently.

The monarchy isn't the problem.


give an example of a non violent movement such as youre describing. i dont think one has ever existed and actually achieved anything


Yellow jacket france


they didnt change anything


The co2 tax, which sparked the protests, was repealed. So yes it did exactly what they wanted


For a new political party to succeed in the uk you need millions in funding, and nobodys going to fund something that potentially affects their vast sums of money.

"Just start a new party and tell people about it" is perhaps the most misleading and flawed idea you could present unfortunately. There have been new parties, there are new parties at every general election, you never hear about them for good reason.


Ok I don’t know enough about this political system to contribute on that, there are some political systems built like that, like the US.


The same thing applies in the US doesn't it? There has essentially only been two political parties (three if you squint hard enough) for nearly the entire existence of the country?


The US problem is the lack of proportional representation. Getting support of 49% of the population gets you 0% role in government.


UK also has that problem, but its even worse with a minority supported government getting majority power.


Yeah that’s why I was making the parallel


Oh thanks for clearing that up, I misunderstood on my previous read.


Influence for this is obviously a 3rd party bankrolling it, it all came together in about 6 weeks in multiple countries. Doesn't matter who you vote in they'll just bankroll the next one too.


mass civil disobedience. Not riots.


What would that look like?


There is widely available literature analyzing public disobedience, I suggest you find some reliable source in your favorite learning media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience


Thanks. So, Gandhi style peaceful resistance? Would that work in England, the way it did in India occupied by England?


The Brits had to leave India because they were running out of money after WW2, that little sari wearing wrong-un had nothing to do with it


This is historical revisionism


There are other options


i've never considered testing out any of the new version control systems i see from time to time for the simple reason that i already know git, everybody else already knows git, git already completely handles everything i could conceivably want it to do (and a bunch more stuff that i will never touch), and perhaps biggest of all, i can't tell my manager that i want our whole team to migrate our code into (new thing) which everybody will have to learn for no reason.

serious question as somebody who has never even looked into what jujutsu offers - unless you're a solo dev with some free time, what exactly is the selling point here?

edit: i didnt realise that its just a layer on top of git so that basically answers my question, fair


particularly snoopy culture, yes, stemming from GCHQ, no idea. our government has always felt entitled to breach our privacy and we are equal parts spineless and stupid. average take on this is either "why would you care unless you have something to hide" or "that's a shame, but there's nothing we can do about anything ever."

regrettably the latter one may be correct but it'd be nice to see at least some pushback every time this happens.


what are your thoughts on solidJS? seems like they're going for "react but not shit", think they pulled it off?


I think it's really great and highly recommend it! Its mental model seems a lot simpler to me, and the runtime performance and bundle size is top-tier as well.


that's completely irrelevant to the point they're making.


i was expecting something dumb if i'm honest but it looks really nice, i would probably use this. it seems like the perfect extension of the "code vomit" speed of writing lua and moves it further in that direction imo.

the thing i like lua for is easily getting into that "flow state" of just writing code without having to think about "how should i approach this" but sometimes the lack of things which pluto addresses forces a level of verbosity that snaps me out of it. i often find myself hitting a mental roadblock where i think "like fuck am i gonna write that much code to do X, i'll just go work on a more fun part of the program and come back later".


interesting that the author blames "the modern developer tooling ecosystem" for the issue of not being able to reproduce builds, it's still a problem of course but in my experience it was way worse in the past, with most ecosystems i've used adopting some kind of passable package manager now.


i'd guess that it has more to do with the fact that people keep vandalising them rather than individuals suddenly picking buying teslas as the one thing to take a stand against when this never seems to happen in any effective capacity for other issues.


games don't cost more to make, just certain out of touch companies keep dumping tons of money into dumb shit gamers don't care about. it has never been easier to make games with a lower entry barrier than it is right now.


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