Really, you're asking me how I conclude that Gruber is an Apple fan?
And if you've been a "Mac Fanboy" for the past 15 years, you haven't been a fan of quality. Until a couple of revs into OSX the Mac OS had been garbage. Mac OS Classic became a dog (it was great in '84).
If in '84 to the mid-90s you were an Apple/Amiga user. And then switched to Windows. And then switched back to Apple around 2002 then you may have a claim. If you didn't get the iPhone until the 3G came out, that's a good sign. If you never bought into the PowerPC being WAY faster than the x86 processors that's a good sign.
But in my experience, Apple "fans" are surprisingly not all that discerning when it comes to Apple products.
And let me be clear... the iPad is the best tablet on the market. The iPhone will be the best phone on the market again, starting next month (I give the nod the Evo right now). Altough I'll take Win7 as best desktop OS, and Google has the best web browser.
It's about looking objectively at each solution and technology. Not these weird claims that no one else does anything of merit, but Apple. The bozo bit gets set right when you say that, because there are several obvious examples of other companies doing good work.
I wasn't happy with MacOS from 8-ish to pre-X, but what was the alternative? I tried liking Solaris and IRIX (didn't ever use NeXT), but there was just nothing out there. Win 95b was a brief glimpse into a future where Windows didn't suck, but they promptly sat on their laurels with 98 and then slapped their userbase around with ME. I tried BeOS a few times, but it never really had any software and the Web wasn't big enough at the time for a lack of software to be okay. I installed Rhapsody when it came out, and then tried to run OSX Developer Preview for a few months before I had to admit that it still wasn't quite baked. Now I couldn't be happier, but I still occasionally try desktop linux and other mobile phones.
I won't say that Apple's products are perfect - the pinnacle of what can be done - just currently the best.
You could have used NT. I was using NT 4.0 and it was pretty darn good. It killed, and I mean killed MacOS. I mean, the delta was way larger than probably the delta between even Vista and OSX. It was really big. The fact that you stayed on MacOS I think says enough.
Fair enough. Although I would have stated that upfront (personal inertia). I was on the Amiga after it was no longer technologically the best platform. But I'd fully acknowledge that it was running on fumes at that point.
It's not hard to conclude that Gruber is an Apple fan. But that's not what ynniv was asking for clarification on. He asked how you justify saying that "[e]verything for him revolves around being a fan of a product..." when it seems pretty clear to most of us that Gruber intended to convey (and probably truly believes for himself) that everything revolves around being (or not) a fan of good and complete design. Even if the two seem synonymous due to current market conditions, that's not inherent.
You seem to be espousing a desire for good products that is similar to the viewpoint Gruber states in this post and others, but you say that his viewpoint isn't genuine. Do you believe that he's been duped by Apple into thinking their products are good, but that you're more immune to that? This needs elaboration.
I also think that in the paragraph you quoted earlier from Gruber, he was assuming that the Android and iPhone fans are fans because they identify with statements like the two he provided, rather than that they would identify with those statements because of their status as iPhone or Android fans.
"when it seems pretty clear to most of us that Gruber intended to convey (and probably truly believes for himself) that everything revolves around being (or not) a fan of good and complete design."
It's not clear to "most of us" (who is "most of us" anyways? Hackers? I don't think so. MacHeads, probably.).
Of course Gruber isn't going to say, "I think Apple is the best even when they're not." He couches his fanaticism in "good taste". And it just so happens that everything Apple does has good taste, and everything anyone else does, does not. Unless they subsequently get bought by Apple.
I don't know if Gruber has been duped, but when I see someone who believes a single company is universally good and their competitors universally bad, I get suspicious. Of course taste is taste. Someone might say that Coby is the pinnacle of consumer gadgets. No one makes better quality than Coby. You'd immediately flip the bozo bit on them, although maybe you'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I just find so little that Gruber says has any objective truth in it, which is why it is hard for me to respect him.
And lets be clear. On my personal blog, I can easily find a lot of really good products from a variety of places. I don't think Gruber has that capacity. For example, could you imagine Gruber saying a positive word about an MS product. For him a product is an MS product above everything else. Quality of the product is a secondary aspect of it. This is why Apple products all get passes. Their first Apple products, and then their quality comes next. And then he justifies the quality of Apple products.
"I also think that in the paragraph you quoted earlier from Gruber, he was assuming that the Android and iPhone fans are fans because they identify with statements like the two he provided, rather than that they would identify with those statements because of their status as iPhone or Android fans."
What does being a fan have to do with having an opinion? Again, his polarization of the world through his lens makes him susceptible to this form of thinking (whether using my or your interpretation).
At the end of the day Gruber is simply not informative, and its due to his fanatical fanboyism. I can pretty much write a Gruber post. I'll take a current Apple controversy. I'll tell you why Apple is right/better, and the competitor is worse. I'll take liberties with logic or common sense, but I'll drop nuggets of insider knowledge (and those are actually useful, and keep his blog from being a total waste).
But then again, I'm sure he's making a lot more money with his blog than I am with this random posting on HN.
"He couches his fanaticism in "good taste"." -- this is exactly it. It is fanaticism no doubt. Given enough variables, like there are here, making it taste good is clearly possible. I use and like Apple products, but trying to justify everything they do as being "good for the user" does no good imho.
And if you've been a "Mac Fanboy" for the past 15 years, you haven't been a fan of quality. Until a couple of revs into OSX the Mac OS had been garbage. Mac OS Classic became a dog (it was great in '84).
If in '84 to the mid-90s you were an Apple/Amiga user. And then switched to Windows. And then switched back to Apple around 2002 then you may have a claim. If you didn't get the iPhone until the 3G came out, that's a good sign. If you never bought into the PowerPC being WAY faster than the x86 processors that's a good sign.
But in my experience, Apple "fans" are surprisingly not all that discerning when it comes to Apple products.
And let me be clear... the iPad is the best tablet on the market. The iPhone will be the best phone on the market again, starting next month (I give the nod the Evo right now). Altough I'll take Win7 as best desktop OS, and Google has the best web browser.
It's about looking objectively at each solution and technology. Not these weird claims that no one else does anything of merit, but Apple. The bozo bit gets set right when you say that, because there are several obvious examples of other companies doing good work.