The fake review problem on Amazon is much bigger than people think. Here are my two anecdotes:
1. I got bluetooth headphones on amazon (~$65). They had great reviews, but were very disappointing. I returned them and gave 2 star review. Representative from the manufacturer contacted me and offered me a pair for free. After I got them, they asked for positive review. I refused. That manipulation technique wasn't enough for them though. They might have merged the listing with some other item. Even though the item was released this year, it has reviews from 2014.
2. When I need a cable or something similar, I go to a page like vipon.com . They offer huge discounts on some items on amazon (sometimes even -80%). They of course "suggest" leaving a review.
The more I look at reviews, the less I trust them. I see similar patterns for most products on amazon.
May be the spotting is actually not that great. One way to test it is to find a popular, known-to-be good product that you have and see what the result is. The example I tried was the Instant Pot (which is rated D):
https://www.fakespot.com/product/instant-pot-ip-duo60-7-in-1...
Right. And the point of my test is to test fake spotting algorithm by finding product that is highly unlikely to have fake reviews.
Just did a quick check again, the Canadian instant pot reviews are now rated as F while the US ones are rated as A. Same product, both ship and sold by Amazon, the algorithm returns polar opposite result.
I don't understand. If your product is already rated 4.5+ stars with thousands of reviews, what's the point of adding fake review? How does that boost sales?
Why waste engineers times when you're on top with hardly any competition? Google and Facebook only started caring about fake information under congressional pressure.
Fake reviews are usually positive. That is just advertising for Amazon which unlike normal advertising HIDES the fact that it is paid-for advertising. Amazon benefits when there is fake positive advertising about stuff sold through them.
Now it is possible that Amazon actually does a good job of stopping fake negative advertisement on its site. Good for them. What would stop them? I don't think there are any laws against putting more money into stopping fraud which does not benefit you than fraud which does.
Jeff Bezos is no idiot....he knows he can let this run until it starts to become truly scandalous, and then Amazon can have a big showy come to Jesus change of heart, and all will be forgotten. Rinse, repeat.
When a customer is burned by a bad product with excellent reviews, especially more than once, ordering from Amazon could quickly become more trouble than it's worth.
I think in that case people will fall back to buying the brands they know rather than trusting the reviews. There are plenty of other reasons people are loyal to Amazon, so bad reviews on their own, I don't think, will be enough to stop people shopping there.
Money. They only care about short term sales. Amazon doesn't care about how much you trust amazon... for now. Once they've lost everyone's trust then they're start to care.
As far as I know (and in my experience so far, e.g. reflected in very lenient return policy) customer trust has been their highest priority from their beginnings, which is one of the main things that made them successful in the early web in the end.
They have been risking it by their issues with counterfeit products and fake reviews only in the most recent years, but I would be surprised if they had no engineers who are thinking about ways to solve these problems.
Almost all of their products have 500-600 reviews and all are 5 star, not even a single one is less than 5 stars. Moreover, most of reviews are created in November 2017 and each reviewer has left couple of 5-star reviews only for same seller's product within a week.
These fake reviews could have been detected by even a basic detection system. Not sure why Amazon has not already detected and removed them.
"Due to the unbalanced pricing policies of the United Postal Union and subsidies from the U.S. Postal Service, it costs people in China virtually nothing to ship small packages to the U.S. That, combined with the super cheap price they pay for the junk they ship, makes brushing a quick and cost effective way to move up the sales rankings -- which means everything for e-commerce merchants."
I simply can't fathom why Western companies aren't freaking out abut this.
Everyone US seller is, sort of, and Amazon is as well. Customers still expect their stuff in 2 days, expect easy returns, and expect QC at the warehouse, and that's something China cannot replicate.
Fake reviews have been an easy exploit for sellers for a long time, and sellers will often buy from competitors just to leave verified bad reviews. It's an ugly game I don't have an answer to.
I expect things in 2-3 days but realistically it never happens without paying a hefty premium.
Amazon's shipping schedule is really bad because they hold your items hostage unless you pay for Prime. It's essentially blackmail to get your item in a reasonable time frame.
As a non-Prime subscriber it usually takes 7-10 days to get an item if you use their free shipping or 5-7 days if you use the cheapest paid shipping option.
The funny thing is, in those non-Prime free shipping cases, the item is usually processed / shipped after 7-8 days and then arrives in 2-3 days.
It's also 99USD/year in Argentina, but we don't get the fast shipping US/India gets.
We're also a "poorer" country, I'm not sure what they base their prices on.
The post I answered was about Chinese sellers. A good US-based 3rd party seller will ship ASAP and use USPS flat rate. Amazon is much more than Amazon warehouses and Prime.
While it's a good program, there are millions of items, unlikely to have them all covered by Vine users. They would have to extend the program greatly for this to be an effective counter.
Huh. I've never really had an issue because I chalked it up more to people buying cheap crap and expecting it to be good. But $65 for a pair of headphones isn't exactly cheap. Was it a familiar brand but maybe a counterfeit? Or was it a brand you've never heard of, but the price is justified by very positive reviews? I'm curious.
Headphones seem to be a very strange category in general. You can get exceptional good value for money if you know what to buy and on the other hand pay a lot for utter crap.
My secret weapon for headphones is to buy pro audio/studio headphones. Their market just won't let them get away with gimmicks.
If you want closed back (recommended for office listening - keeps noise in an out) get AKG k550/k553 (negligibly different editions of the same thing)
If you want open back (scary accurate but bleeds sound like crazy) get a pair of Grados, the lower end ones like the 65 will do fine. I say this with love, but those headphones ruined some records for me. You can tell where they cut vocal takes on major label records because the noise floor drops. Crazy stuff.
Listening is extremely subjective though. Headphone types can be better / worse for certain listening habits (there are people out there who don't think great bass makes great music, folks), and for different ears. Music taste itself is extremely subjective. Best thing is still to get to a trusted hifi store nearby with your own, known music in best quality and your current best headphone model and test through candidate models yourself. (Admittedly, I'd still read some reviews before investing a few hundred dollars into headphones.)
> Headphone types can be better / worse for certain listening habits
No they can't. Loudspeakers (of all kinds) can either faithfully convert electrical signals into the vibrations they represent, or they can't. Equalizer presets can be better / worse for certain listening habits. There is no reason, when even a $5 MP3 player has EQ presets, that headphones shouldn't be aiming for a flat frequency-response curve.
Now, admittedly, there might be some preference axis between being able to faithfully replicate high amplitude signals, vs. having low impedance and therefore being kinder to the batteries of portable devices (and/or not requiring an extra in-line portable headphone amp.) But other than that one distinction, headphones can really only be "better" or "worse" at doing their one job.
For loudspeakers it's more complicated than a simple flat on-axis response; the dispersion into the room is critically important. Which in turn means that a flat frequency response curve is the wrong target for headphones designed to mimic good speakers, because a flat loudspeaker is not flat when measured at the ear, which is where headphone drivers are located.
Good point, but I do wonder—is "full fidelity" really best defined as matching the sound profile of good speakers? Or is it better defined by e.g. whatever the sound engineer was hearing on their studio monitors when they finished the mastering process?
That is: in most digital artistic media, the goal of the reproduction process is to faithfully carry across the art (and engineering) that "went in" on the other side. Listeners can tweak to their preference from there, but the baseline should be to replicate the work as the artist experiences it, rather than as the artist expects their audience to experience it. (An analogy: the "default", pre-choice-of-audience way to reproduce a painting shouldn't involve a frame and gallery wall, but rather should involve the painting standing alone as a canvas on an easel in a room in the same lighting conditions it was painted in.)
That is: in most digital artistic media, the goal of the reproduction process is to faithfully carry across the art (and engineering) that "went in" on the other side
I can't agree with this. I don't think it's right at all. Art is targeted at a broad band of senses, from aesthetic through sensory to emotional. You're hung up on the narrow band of sensory reproduction, but that isn't what's most important to actual humans.
Take an example: some electro house track that person A might have heard on a night out, where they had a really good time. They would have heard it in the middle of a crowd (dampening a significant chunk of the sound), probably overly loud, probably with the bass pumped up.
If person A later listens to that track on studio headphones focused on faithfully carrying across engineering and "art", they'll be hearing the mechanics of the music and how it was constructed, but it will be subjectively a poorer reproduction of the remembered moment and experience. They'd actually be better off listening on much lower quality headphones that had boosted bass and muddy reproduction that let different frequencies intermingle, to make sure it doesn't sound spare and separated out like high quality headphones tend to.
Another example: person B might have been to a symphony or opera. They'll have a much happier time with high quality headphones separating out each instrument, appreciating the individuals even as they form the symphony.
Context.
An analogy: the "default", pre-choice-of-audience way to reproduce a painting shouldn't involve a frame and gallery wall, but rather should involve the painting standing alone as a canvas on an easel in a room in the same lighting conditions it was painted in
I think you're nuts! There's multiple frames to view a piece of visual art; from the artist's perspective, they may have designed the piece for a specific location, so you're better off if it's shown that way. It may have been designed to be contextualized (e.g. in a triptych, or as ironic contrast with its original commission). But the passage of time also contextualizes art; art can become meaningful not for its intrinsic artistry or aesthetic, but because of the narrative around the piece, or the artist, or the city / country at the time. A piece of art might be interesting only because e.g. it was once stolen by a very interesting person and got into the news that way; it might not have anything to do with the artifact as a thing-in-itself.
And I hasten to add that that doesn't mean it's bad art. Art is about provoking broad band reaction in the viewer. In order to do that, it needs to trigger the viewer's pattern matching neurobiology relating to different aspects of their lived experience. That's inherently contextual, both on the subject side and on the object side. There's no escaping context.
There is no reason, when even a $5 MP3 player has EQ presets, that headphones shouldn't be aiming for a flat frequency-response curve.
Sure there is. The market might prefer a baked-in EQ preset. In fact, different subsets of the market may prefer different presets. And that brings it back to the grandparent's point. The customer is always right; even when they're technically wrong, their preferences are what count.
Can confirm - for everyday in-ears, these Panasonic in-ears are indeed good and durable.
Cheap but surprisingly good end:
Superlux HD668B (20-40$, as they got popular you may need to watch out for counterfeits). IMHO they are on par with some popular 200$ - 300$ Beyerdynamic / Sennheiser / AKG models. You may want to follow one of the online guides to replace the ear cup plastic with velour.
Fakespot: A (90%)
Expensive end: AudioQuest Nighthawk, 1st model. Their sound is unique and "purist audiophiles" may not like it, but they work pretty well with my listening habits; the experience has been pure joy so far and they are very comfortable.
Fakespot: A (90%)
Listening habits: Metal (symphonic-, power-, progressive-, i.e. complex and with classical music elements; e.g. Blind Guardian) and some Depeche Mode
Happens all the time. Last few times I've purchased electronics on Amazon that have been relatively recently listed (i.e 20 reviews or less), I've made a point of looking at the reviews.
Click on first reviewer's name, and that reviewer has just happened to review 5 items all on the same day, and those are the only 5 items they have ever reviewed. And all 5 items are completely random (electronics, bed linen, garden equipment, clothing, etc). Rinse and repeat with second, third, fourth reviewer and a similar pattern arises.
Majority of recently listed electronic items that I've been looking to purchase follow the same pattern.
You just described my reviewing behavior, and mine are legitimate reviews. I buy a variety of products. My purchase history is listed in my account, and every once in a while I go and review a bunch of them at the same time, in reverse order of purchase because that's the order in which they appear.
The brand is Bluedio. They have pretty good reviews considering the price. I have used Xiaomi before and was amazed by quality/price. I was hoping Bluedio, which is another Chinese brand would be also good. I was wrong.
Say you want bookshelf speakers. Going with the budget pick I might get Pioneer SP-BS22-LRs, but they're around 4500RMB here in China. Other reputable brands come in around 10000RMB, which is so far outside my budget its not even funny. But most of these speakers are made in China anyways, so you start sleuthing. K, i find a post on an Audiophile forum that tells me that HiVi(/Swan) makes the drivers for most upscale Audio equipment. Let's check what HiVi has. Ahh, they've got a bloody gorgeous pair of speakers for 1699RMB[0], and a passable one for 699RMB, and an official Taobao store. And they'll do.
Boots I would not buy from China, in China, you can return them and test.
For budget headphones, Senneheiser is what I get in Germany, Tascam if you're in the US, JVC for Asia. Don't know any Chinese brands of note there.
For smartphones Xiaomi is blowing it out of the water right now. Their Redmi（红米） line is incredible value. Then there's Huawei, Meizu, OPPO, Honor, and whatever Hammer(Chuizi) is.
Most of the problematic products as they relate to reviews on Amazon are Chinese products. When I used to do incentivized reviews, all but one single company who approached me for a product review (this does not include eBook authors) was not Chinese.
>> For a certain class of goods and for reasonable price points, you do get what you pay for.
This is 100% true, but I find a lot of Chinese products punched above their weight. During my time reviewing, I turned down the cheap sketchy products and focused mainly on stuff that I wanted that looked like they were well made. And you know what, a lot of the products I got were actually fantastic relative to their selling price.
That's true. Buying Chinese electronics is a lottery (usually). I would, however, recommend some Xiaomi products. They are really excellent considering the price.
BTW I actually ended up buying Sennheiser headphones after I returned the crappy ones.
I bought a Bang & Olufsen Bluetooth speaker this year. It broke after a month. It was just sitting on a table. I've also bought some no-name Chinese crap Bluetooth earbuds that have never failed. All of this is really anecdotal, and it's a complete lottery.
right? I have a HD280 from ~12 years ago? the headband started to disintegrate maybe 5 years ago but it's still quite usable at home and the sound and comfort is still as wonderful. bought a 2nd pair maybe 5+ years ago when it was discounted at literally half-price, so that's the one that gets taken outside on field-trips.
Joining this bandwagon. The headband on mine just sort of started to disintegrate into a weird sticky mess after 2-3 years. Then someone pulled them open too hard and cracked the plastic. Mine are from 2004, still working perfectly, but the whole headband area is now pretty much duct tape and glue.
I've never heard a Sony audio product that actually sounded bad, and I've owned a lot of them, including earbuds, headphones, MP3 players, cassette players, audio systems, Blu-ray, SACD and MiniDisc ;-)
They haven't all been the best sounding, or even the best value, but they've all had decent sound quality. Some of them have had exceptional sound quality.
I have to agree. I owned several Sony audio products and listened to many (earbuds, amps and portable players) and they always sounded good for the money. I especially like the way their portable players sound, they seem to have really nice amps.
(Darn, had to create an account to post this comment)
Yeah, where I’m reading online reviews and sold statistics, I always have to mentally normalize for the fact that most people just buy the cheapest item.
I wish sites like Amazon had a feature such as “people who buy similar quality items to you, also bought this...”
Vipon looks like an interesting site. Do you know if they have a Twitter listing their deals? I don't have an iOS device (which seems to be the only place that they have an app for). A Twitter account would be a perfect in between.
Incidentally, I started a deals & promos list of accounts on Twitter that provide the latest sales on a variety of sites. Feel free to check it out. I have no affiliation with any of the companies listed (Well, I have an Amazon associates account - but it wouldn't benefit me here, since it's other accounts posting their affiliate links)
I find @kinjadeals to have a lot of good deals, but unless it's name brand stuff, it often breaks or wears down after a few months.
I resorted to buy only Amazon Basic cables for the PC/monitor/TV and Anker cables/charger for the mobile phones. It is not the cheapest option but you still get high quality for a low price and you don't have to deal with any shady shops.
I bought that 3 years ago. I think mine is doing okay but you can tell from the reviews that it wasn't a quality cable. I doubt Amazon has really up'd their game since then.
Doesn't the fact that this this product (and presumably Amazon Basics stuff generally) is well-described by its reviews refute the whole point of the linked article and... support the grandparent point that you should stick with them where possible?
Monoprice also sells through Amazon and most, if not all, of their items qualify for Prime (something like 1000' cable spools might not qualify, but the everyday consumer stuff generally does). Never had a problem with any of their wires.
I was once greatly disappointed by an item and left a very, very detailed review which reported the exact reasons for my dissatisfaction and all the various tests I made of the product that led me to my conclusion.
All my effort was for nothing. The vendor just delisted that item and re-listed it again, so no one would even read my review unless they bothered to read reviews for a delisted product.
I guess I could have re-posted my review in the new listing, but it was too much trouble, so I never bothered to do so.
> offered me a pair for free. After I got them, they asked for positive review. I refused.
So they were "very disappointing", but not "very disappointing" enough to refuse a free pair, at their expense?
> That manipulation technique
Perhaps, since you were happy to accept the headphones, they believed your original negative review was not sincere, but itself a manipulation technique to get a freebie or special offer in return for a more positive review. (Which I suspect is not unheard-of for some buyers on Amazon.)
To be clear: Although I don't know you I don't believe that is what you did (most people don't do that), what I mean is the company may be used to some people trying that kind of thing, and accepting the product for free may be a hint that you're willing to do what they asked.
However, what kind of "positive review" did they want? A review where you pretend not to be disappointed, or simply an update to your review stating something like: "while I don't believe these are worth $65, and returned them, I can't fault the customer service in trying to make up for my disappointment"?
Because I don't see anything at all wrong with the latter; and it's certainly more reasonable than leaving a negative review of a product which you were happy to accept at the 'right price'.
I do not consider buying positive reviews with free items an ethical marketing strategy: it deceives people expecting unaffiliated opinions there...
Why should anyone take part in this?
If a company decides to give away free items, and gets nothing in reply that's their problem... I am happy when people do not sell their kidney for pennies: and as a single costumer you usually don't have the power to fight back large corporations: then sometimes the most convenient reaction is to keep both the free gifts and your kidney ;) And if many people do this, it may eventually get them out from business, win-win
edit: Thinking over, I partly agree with the previous comment. If they expect you to update your review, honesty may be the most ethical, so e.g. one can start it with: "They have sent me a free item after I returned mine and gave them a 2 star review..." ;)
> I do not consider buying positive reviews with free items an ethical marketing strategy: it deceives people expecting unaffiliated opinions there...
> Why should anyone take part in this?
Where did I say buying positive reviews was an ethical marketing strategy or that people should take part in it? I don't think that and I didn't say anything even remotely like it in the post you're replying to.
F rating on fakespot, and 1500 visibly fake 5-star reviews. Innocent customers have already started falling in trap and you can notice that from recently created 1 star reviews. How many customers will be burned before the overall rating will go down due to real reviews?
Frankly, those don't bother me because nobody will write a decent review just because they were prodded a bit. It makes the average useless, of course, but you can still read them.
Paid reviews from professionals are more dangerous. I just have to hope the companies' greed prevents them from paying enough for a good review.
I bet you received a counterfeit item and you did not realize this. This post suggests that you may be suffering a textbook example of confirmation bias [1].
1. I got bluetooth headphones on amazon (~$65). They had great reviews, but were very disappointing. I returned them and gave 2 star review. Representative from the manufacturer contacted me and offered me a pair for free. After I got them, they asked for positive review. I refused. That manipulation technique wasn't enough for them though. They might have merged the listing with some other item. Even though the item was released this year, it has reviews from 2014.
2. When I need a cable or something similar, I go to a page like vipon.com . They offer huge discounts on some items on amazon (sometimes even -80%). They of course "suggest" leaving a review.
The more I look at reviews, the less I trust them. I see similar patterns for most products on amazon.