>>>There is absolutely no such thing as the "American spirit of defending yourself from tyranny", whoever told you that sold you a lie.
"The means of defense against a foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
—James Madison[1]
"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson[1]
"What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
-Thomas Jefferson[2]
> The Revolutionary War was not a precedent, it was a single violent act by a unified people. What you're talking about is literally the opposite of unification.
You dropped this when you quoted me. I wonder why...
To think that we should resort to violence instead of using the systems in place for peaceful negotiations is insane.
Also, interesting how you only quoted slave-owning inspirations of Southern Democrats, who buried their heads in the sand, preferring to talk high mindedly in their ivory towers about the Constitution than actually fix the immense problems facing the people they purportedly wanted to help.
>>>You dropped this when you quoted me. I wonder why...
There was nothing particularly egregious about that particular statement. I didn't feel a response was necessary.
>>>To think that we should resort to violence instead of using the systems in place for peaceful negotiations is insane.
Soap box --> ballot box --> ammo box.
There is a spectrum of methods for effecting change. If people are reaching for the ammo box, it SHOULD only be because all attempts to utilize other methods have already conclusively failed.
>>>Also, interesting how you only quoted slave-owning inspirations of Southern Democrats
They were the first ones I came across in a 30-second Internet search for "Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment" or "Founding Fathers on tyranny". A further search for non-slaving owning Founding Fathers reveals [Thomas Paine, Samuel Adams, John Adams].
"In a state of tranquility, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny." ~ Samuel Adams[1]
Thomas Paine doesn't have many juicy tyranny/2A quotes. John Adams seems to take the position that the militia should be an extension of the state security apparatus (my reading of his quote).[2]
But anyways, this is all getting away from why I replied at all: you stated there was "no such thing as an American spirit of defending yourself against tyranny" and implied anyone stating such is a liar. That is a blatant falsehood. Positions from the nations founders on tyranny are so easily accessible and, IMO, fairly clear on the subject. So what sort of information have you been exposed to that would ever lead you to hold such a strong, and objectively erroneous, position?
>you'll be fighting your neighbor, because your neighbor thinks you're a fucking dumbass who he'd rather kill than reason with, because of how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation over a long period of time.
I normally wouldn't respond to a post like this, but if you are thinking about hurting people that you disagree with, please seek out some help. This sentence honestly reads like a warning flag to me for someone who has reached their limit for debating peacefully with others.
> I normally wouldn't respond to a post like this, but if you are thinking about hurting people that you disagree with, please seek out some help. This sentence honestly reads like a warning flag to me for someone who has reached their limit for debating peacefully with others.
Yeah, that "how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation" comment seems a little self-revealing especially when coupled with that latest edit.
This is definitely "I was just threatening you as a hypothetical, bro!" territory
They are talking about violence that you yourself had posited would be occurring in the context of an armed insurgency, which is a hypothetical that you posed. You're now twisting their response to your own example into something you're interpreting as a generalized wish for violence on people they disagree with, totally ignoring of the context of the conversation up to this point.
I feel bad for someone like you; needing to twist reality to get somewhere.
You realize everyone in this comment thread can see my comment, right above yours, right? Willfully misinterpreting what I've written to seem hostile when in reality it's you who suggested Americans should kill each other.
You must need a win, and we've all been there, but insurgency isn't what the 2nd Amendment was about, it never was, and lying won't change that fact.
>I don't think you've thought this through; you won't be fighting soldiers in your little quest for rebellion, you'll be fighting your neighbor, because your neighbor thinks you're a fucking dumbass who he'd rather kill than reason with, because of how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation over a long period of time.
Does he really want to do that, seeing as how I have a gun and he doesn't?
He's got a gun, he's got lots of guns; just as many as you, possibly more, because he's also been preparing, as you have.
You're going to have to go much further right than you seem to think to arrive at a conclusion of, "I need to commit acts of terrorism against my own country because I believe the US government is tyrannical."
