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> but I feel that Apple management, and its shareholders, have no idea what it means to build a car

I feel like people pretend that building a car is way harder than it actually is in 2020.

All the components to build a car are readily available. A person can buy the parts on their own and put them together in their garage. It isn't like they have to go get a pick axe and start mining ore to create everything from scratch. Apple just needs to buy the components that already work, and then do what they do best and perfect that parts that haven't been perfected. In this case, the battery, the motor, the onboard computer, and the software. And based off what Apple has built in the past, these are the things that Apple would be REALLY good at.

It isn't like they have to invent tires and drive shafts.

I know I undersold the difficulty of making a car in this comment, but come one, Apple is 87 times more valuable than Ford. They have enough cash on hand to buy Ford 5 times. Money might not solve all problems, but it really really helps.



I work for a tier 1 EV supplier, I've spent 2 months in Hyundai's Namyang R&D center, several weeks at Aston Martin's facilities, and some others, you undersold it by A LOT. Ford, GM and other veterans on the industry have long lost their original spirit, just like any other company, but what they have is established processes and supply chain management, and that takes decades to do right. You can ship a 1st gen iPhone without a working camera, vehicle recalls hit you much harder.


And you need to supply parts for vehicles for almost a decade after the vehicle is no longer sold. At least in Europe.


>but what they have is established processes and supply chain management, and that takes decades to do right.

From my long time reading on HN, 99.99% of HN have absolutely zero visibility and knowledge on anything with Supply Chain.

I mean even the Web Industry and Programmers all jumped on to Cloud computing they dont have have the concept of "lead time" anymore.


Elon Musk, the guy responsible for sending humans to the space station, a feat that has only been matched by the largest governments, stated that building modern auto manufacturing is harder than building rockets.


Well, he did not say that building cars is harder than building rockets, but that "building the machine that builds the machine" is more difficult.

As in: efficient, large volume manufacturing and supply chain management. But that's obviously a very different kind of challenge.

He said the same thing about the new SpaceX rocket, Starship, which is supposed to be produced in large volumes.


And? Are you saying that Apple couldn't build rockets?


Why would you think Apple is capable of building rockets? They have essentially zero aerospace expertise and that type of engineering is not at all in their DNA. Sure, they have billions of dollars to burn so it's within the realm of possibility, but it would be a very inefficient use of their cash.


Well, Elon Musk didn't have aerospace experience expertise either.

Neither did Jeff Bezos.


Jeff Bezos started 2 years earlier with a much larger war chest, and has yet to send a rocket into orbit, let alone send humans to a space station.


Sure... but SpaceEx is a company with laser engineering focus on essentially one goal for the last two decades, and they're only recently gaining traction on their ambitions, Apple would have an extremely steep curve to ascend before they could even hope to enter the "crash a bunch of rockets for research" phase. Apple just isn't built for this type of engineering.


Elon Musk started 20 years ago. So in 20 years Apple could of course build rockets if they wanted.


Yup. Apple is closer to Ford and GM than it is to Tesla. Tesla is highly vertically integrated, and probably moving more so. Apple is much less vertically integrated. They design their products, but all their manufacturing is like others -- kinda like Ford and GM.


> the onboard computer

Which one? I mean, even a Tesla has over 40 computers on the CAN bus. Cars may look simple when they just have a touchscreen interface, but they're really a small network of computers that can be driven. Engineering, and then building a car is really hard. Tesla has proven an upstart can do it, but they've been at it almost 20 years and Musk himself says it is very hard to build cars.

I'm sure Apple can do it if they put the resources in, but they're less than 1000 people deep at this point. 1000 people is a small department working on something you've never heard of at a large automaker. I don't even mean top secret stuff, I just mean day-to-day shit that most people don't think about, like drafting repair routines for each possible thing that can go wrong that someone in the field needs to fix in a timely manner. You take your car into get repaired and only 2-3 people may touch it, but that's nothing compared to the hundreds of people that worked on the information and software that those 2-3 people used to fix your car.

Not to mention the different software that is running in all of the 40+ computers in the car... or the hardware and software that's used to communicate with/diagnose problems with/update those computers.

Even after the car is engineered, it takes over a year to then engineer all of the tooling, equipment and processes that will be used to mass produce that car, put that tooling in place, configure it, test it, train people to use it, etc.

Modern cars are marvelous machines, and there's a nearly unbelievable amount of effort that goes into designing, building and repairing them.


Building one car and building millions of car is not the same thing. Car production, distribution and servicing is a totally different very localized problem.

Apple can do it if they really want do, but lets not pretend it is easy.




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