Kinda sorta.

The more reasonable explanation is they have an effective domestic propaganda apparatus to shape domestic atttudes and a large diaspora that's well represented in tech. It can take quite some time for those attitudes to mellow.

Add to that Westerners of various stripes that get defensive when foreign imperialism is discussed.

No need for some kind of government run downvote ring.

I think the more reasonable explanation is it's a combination of both.

What I described is pretty much a standard, expected, and elementary capability of any intelligence apparatus in the modern world these days. It doesn't even veer into conspiracy-anything. There's documents that detail precisely how some of these units work, Western or otherwise.

That said, if you're entirely correct, it's admittedly a very sad reality.

I know they have the capability, I'm just skeptical use it on HN.

I would think they'd focus on places with more reach (e.g. Twitter, Facebook, maybe Reddit) and places were they could have more control (e.g. fake blogs, fake think tanks, websites that peddle conspiracy theories).

I'm sure the larger platforms do have more focus, although that isn't mutually exclusive with the notion that resources are still allocated to HN.

The mandate of these units probably dictates they go wherever the discussion happens to be, especially if that discussion runs contrary to the objectives of the unit's host country.

Anecdotally, I've never experienced more rapid, clustered downvotes than in these threads. Certain keywords tend to be magnets for downvotes, regardless of how tame, well-written, or factual the comment is—to a degree that doesn't square with far more controversial opinions expressed in unrelated threads.

It's a rather chilling effect, or at the very least discouraging via way of annoyance.

> Anecdotally, I've never experienced more rapid, clustered downvotes than in these threads. Certain keywords tend to be magnets for downvotes, regardless of how tame, well-written, or factual the comment is—to a degree that doesn't square with far more controversial opinions expressed in unrelated threads.

1. Downvotes shouldn't matter to you.

2. I doubt downvotes matter to the 50 cent parties and disinformation trolls of the world, either, if only because a downvote provides so little payoff.

>1. Downvotes shouldn't matter to you.

They typically don't. However, the notion that it could be due to a disingenuous concerted effort makes me feel rather indignant. Downvotes equate to reduced visibility on HN, it's tantamount to a soft silencing. Nobody likes to be unduly silenced.

It's not just me, virtually any comments that criticize a certain regime tend to rapidly sink to the bottom of the thread, and I strongly suspect banality ain't the reason.

>2. I doubt downvotes matter to the 50 cent parties and disinformation trolls of the world, either, if only because a downvote provides so little payoff.

Due to the way HN works, the reduced visibility results in ability to steer the conversation in different directions by expressing preference for friendly or unrelated comments, while inducing volatility in the thread such that it ends up flagged or moved off the main page.

Moreover there's the notion of kinetics. If you take a valid but otherwise true comment and downvote it right after it hits, people are going to pay it less attention. Comments more friendly to whatever objective can then become established as the thread makes its way on to and off of the main page.

In other words, it's pretty low effort and high payoff. The cost is essentially a few dozen accounts above 500 karma, and the reward is you censor or otherwise derail content critical of you on HN. That isn't hard for a government operation.

You could of course still be right. Could be a combination of false equivalency with the U.S. and people thinking stuff like this is conspiracy shit, not knowing any better. All we can do is speculate.

The USA is a superpower. Superpowers have units dedicated to information warfare. Some of these units deal with controlling discourse and sentiment. HN is a fairly prominent public forum within the tech industry. The USA wants global influence, particular in the technology sector.

It's reasonable to assume they probably have some fairly clever downvote rings here that are well hidden.

>Superpowers have units dedicated to information warfare.

My original comment already said as much, no need to mirror of my original comment in condescending fashion with minor changes, as if it's somehow profound.

The key difference is how the capabilities are used. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's fair to assume the U.S. military isn't going around suppressing speech that criticizes say, the United States' woefully broken system of incarceration.

Mad-libs substitution responses are annoying wastes of everyone's time. They are also highly likely to venture into false equivalency territory.

Couple weeks ago I made a comment on a story pondering if a certain British tech executive had undisclosed links to the intelligence services. Some people replied and there was interesting discussion. Then the comment (not the story, just my comment) got 'flagged' and is now collapsed by default so that no one further would read it. Rather strange.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28101624

I've read everything in that thread, the underlying article, plus any other articles I can find on him. There's nothing I can see that suggests he has "undisclosed links to the intelligence services." The guy was a childhood friend of Hassabis.

Nonetheless, interesting person.