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I was able to read about half the article before a black box appeared with text saying I was an “engaged reader.” After clicking on the question mark icon in the black box I was taken to a page where it was explained how the author has hidden “achievements” throughout their site and asks if I, the reader, can find them all.

This feels like the exact thing the author is rallying about in this post — technology designed to keep us in front of our screens.



Haha I forgot about those entirely! It was a fun time killer from a few years ago, not a way to keep you hooked. I don’t have any tracking whatsoever on this website, so I wouldn’t notice if you engaged more.


> It was a fun time killer from a few years ago, not a way to keep you hooked

What's the exact difference?


I don’t know if you’ll engage more and I don’t care either way. I post repair instructions for a 16 year old car and recipes for my own reference. You are on a personal website.


> You are on a personal website.

I'm not demanding you take it off, I'm just making a conversation. I'm curious about the difference between "being hooked" and "time killing" from your perspective.

Right now, it seems that the difference is "whether or not the creator cares about the amount of user interaction". Which is fine, makes sense (since most toxic of forms of "engagement tools" are driven by metrics user interaction) but kinda hand-wavy - anyone can pretend to "not care" and keep doing it.


I think in this context, 'time killing' is for the author of the feature, not the client of the website.

I.E it was done because it was fun and the author had some free time, not as a 'time-killer' for people visiting the website


It just means that it doesn’t support a metric. It’s just there because I wanted to build something fun. I agree that it’s a bad experience, but I wasn’t exposed to it in so long that I forgot it was there.


Here's what I figure:

Whatever thing we're talking about, be it online media or TV shows or an activity or whatever, there's a thin line between "fun" and "addictive" - in order for anything to be "addictive" it must also be "fun", or otherwise nobody would get addicted to it. Even more - the more "fun" a thing is, the more "addictive" it gets.

In online media, engagement tricks have got a bad reputation (at least with HN-visiting crowd) because of the companies who pour huge budgets into "engagement research", A/B testing, dark patterns, and all the other stuff we hate.

However, discarding all fun things because they might be addictive would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So it is important to draw some kind of line between "fun" and "addictive".

Right now, the absence of user engagement data collection seems to be a good rule of thumb. So in conclusion, your widget is okay.

---

I apologize if my question has offended. I did not mean to imply your personal work is "bad" in any way.


No need to apologise. It was delightfully ironic to have achievements there, regardless of intention.

In the end, you have to ask yourself who it benefits, and at whose expense. Intent matters a lot. In this case, there's no case for growth hacking. It would be different if I hosted this post on a professional website.

I run a content website, and I constantly need to remind my business partners that I answer to my readers, not to them. If you perceive the internet as a giant conversion funnel, users become a lot more like cattle: a commodity whose well-being is only considered in support of profit. The incentives are all geared towards squeezing users.


Can we stop making people atone for their sins for offending the delicate sensibilities of HNers?


That was certainly not my intention, I apologize if anyone feels that way because of my comments.


I liked the post - heads up that you can make your Reddit front page even better by enabling compact links in settings. This makes old Reddit look like Reddit from 2008, it’s great.


Wow, there are lots of interesting settings on old.reddit.com. I didn't realise that I could hide comments with a low score for example.


That is some irony there.

If you want people to be engaged, delivering content that respects them is the only step. Engagement measurement and mechanics that interfere with that only serve to reduce that respect.


Sounds like you'd consider most K-12 and undergraduate level education to be un-engaging, which I'm not sure I disagree with, haha.


That's an exercise for the reader!




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