The title is all this site is willing to divulge to me.
I just took the train into the city, had a burger & beer, and soon I'll train back home. I have zero worries about my safety.
Anyway, the Right party pulled the balance of power from the Left and formed a centre/right coalition more than a year ago, because of all the bad people coming here and doing bad things. Weren't they going to fix this?
> I just took the train into the city, had a burger & beer, and soon I'll train back home. I have zero worries about my safety.
That's also the life of millions in Ukraine right now so your anecdote doesn't mean much
Looking at the statistics and historical trends paint another picture, of course this isn't El Salvador, but it doesn't mean it's going in the right direction
> That's also the life of millions in Ukraine right now so your anecdote doesn't mean much
You're always right to question anecdote, but I call bullshit on the comparison to Ukraine. Crimea was taken. Borders are actively shifting. Nuclear attacks were a serious threat. I half-assedly considered actions I might take if the war spilled over here in some form.
But looking at the article's scary graph: the badness has a bit-over-doubled between 2014-2022. So if you were hanging out with 6 of your friends in 2014 and concerned that one of you was going to be gunned down in the next year, you should have around that same level of concern when hanging out with 2-3 of your friends in 2022.
I live in western Washington. In the past couple of years I met some Ukrainians - for home related remodeling, help wit cleaning and cooking. I can tell you none of these people will go back to Ukraine. Their kids are already in public schools learning English and integrating in the society.
>Anyway, the Right party pulled the balance of power from the Left and formed a centre/right coalition more than a year ago, because of all the bad people coming here and doing bad things. Weren't they going to fix this?
While I do think problems are way overblown, I don't know if you realize, these issues take generations to fix. If there is one legitimate scary bit about immigration is that it has VERY long-reaching consequences. You can deport someone who just got there, you can't deport someone's grandkid, he has nowhere to return to.
Because cultural differences have pushed him to crimes.
For example. I'm Spanish. My neighbors are Moroccan. The father didn't once in his life acknowledge my mother. He wouldn't talk to her. He would ignore her if she talked. To him, my mother was barely a person because she was a woman. Now this is extreme, but legal behavior, if it ever came to pass that he crossed some lines he might have gotten deported.
His son though? Stealing, selling drugs and beating his sisters are some of the things he has done, but he is a Spanish citizen, just like any other, so there is no magic "back to your country" card to play.
My point is that it's legitimate to pick and choose who you let into a country because the consequences of doing so are far-reaching. Because even if you might be able to deal swiftly with the guy you let in, every human being takes culture with him, and culture spreads. Integration is the most important phase of immigration, along with making sure those people you let in aren't going to be pushed into a life of crime and I don't think anyone ignoring that is taking immigration seriously.
> I just took the train into the city, had a burger & beer, and soon I'll train back home. I have zero worries about my safety.
My grandma smoked since she was a teenager and she is still alive and has no cancer. I guess all tobacco research is just fear-mongering.
> Weren't they going to fix this?
Were they? I’ve read a summary of the Moderate Party manifesto (https://archive.is/v6IYb) and, well, it looked pretty moderate. It looks like those measures will simply prevent exacerbation of the problems rather than solve them in under a year. It’s not like they did something similar to the Salvadoran gang crackdown.
The right campaigned on their tough on gangs stance. They made it the main topic of debate in the run up to the election, and filled all the interviews with it. They talked about nothing else. They scared the public into voting for them to solve the problem.
They're not going to fix it because then nobody will vote for them. Besides, they can't fix it, they just needed a bogeyman and there isn't much to fix to begin with. All that you can do is educate and aim to reduce the gap with the next generation or to accept that your own culture isn't static.
Ask the Scottish how they feel about Sweden exporting its culture a while ago.
Sweden | Norway | Denmark made #thuglife a thing across modern Scotland, northern and eastern England, much of Ireland, established DaneLaw, crashed the old Roman bathhouses, and turned Dublin into a major European slave teading hub.
The Danelaw originated from the invasion of *the Great Heathen Army* into England in the year 865, although the term was not used to describe a geographic area until the 11th century.
Are they deporting immigrants (regardless of country of origin) involved in violent crimes? Genuine question.
I know rehabilitation is different in Europe than the US, but there are likely resource constraints for attempting to do so at scale looking at trailing immigration volume.
They very often are not able to deport. Because no country takes those people in. The laws are in place but there are few ethical options.
Same story for the border closing in Finland by the way. You are dealing with a deeply unethical state, so when you don't let them in, these people will have to die. Because the other side knows that you are more likely to give in out of ethical principle.
Generally, in any country, if your asylum/refugee claim is accepted, they won't deport you back to origin unless the situation you were escaping has resolved.
(I'm guessing its generally asylum/refugee immigrants people are complaining about, not those from elsewhere in europe)
That’s unfortunate if an immigrant won’t assimilate responsibly into their host country and causes continuing harm through this policy. You’re just importing future prisoners and criminals.
Refugees/immigrants/etc should be welcomed (I have sponsored refugees in the US), but violent crime must be prevented if someone runs out of chances. You need some recourse when you run out of options and people who have immigrated refuse to act in good faith. Immigration is a gift and a privilege.
I assume you meant integrate instead of assimilate?
I definitely want immigrants to integrate in our society (and am prepared to do this when I travel into another country).
But I would not expect anyone to assimilate - which to my understanding means giving up their previous culture and take on the culture of the host country.
Good for you. I worry however. Not exactly for my own safety, but for where this is leading. It can become much worse if this trend is not forcefully dealt with.
I lived in Hjulsta for ten months. Statistics don't get worse than that. I was usually the only white person out after dark. Twice people rang on my door in the morning because I forgot my key out in the door over night. I moved away because it was too far from my workplace. Best supermarkets in the entire town though!
My friend looks basically like an Iranian (very dark wavy hair and dark eyes, but somewhat pale skin), even though he is a Czech, and lives in Stockholm. He saw blond people harassed multiple times.
He says "I am quite lucky that the worst individuals consider me 'one of their own' and leave me alone. This means that I can take the metro without any precautions. But blonde girls that work with me started preferring safer commute to the office a long time ago."
My first hand anecdotes; we let our kids ride subways on their own in Stockholm from about 9 years old. Everyone I know use public transport, I have never heard anyone complain about this!
Subways are safe. EDIT: I am sure there are problems I am not saying it is perfect
Did you also experience bomb attacks? Apparently, there were over 100 bomb attacks in Sweden this year. Our Eastern European country has twice the size of Sweden's population, and we had zero bombs going off, possibly since the 90s, as I don't remember any. Gun violence is really low here too, we barely remember any that made the news.
I'm sure that Sweden is a nice country to live in, I've visited it, seems great, but ignoring the crime wave is short-sighted, and I don't understand what “high standard” you're talking about.
I live in an area where there has been gang related gun violence and bombings; there are no neighborhoods around here where I feel unsafe. No one is ignoring it but sadly the current affairs are being used as a political tool to remove freedoms and further far right agendas. I do not know where you are from but lets say; Romania they have done an amazing job the last 30 years their homicide rate per capita has at times managed to drop below our current levels.
The high standard means that there is actually still a functioning society there with stability, security and trust in police and government. While we do have problems with the money generated from drug trade and other crimes.
This seems to be a problem though for migrants who go to a country from a "worse" place.
"The standard for bad here isn't bad" because it was worse elsewhere. Where I live in the US we have this too where migrants who have come here don't see anything bad because where they are from was worse.
They don't see what those of us that have been here from birth have seen. That standards are sliding. Yes, for you the migrant coming from a poorer place, this place is richer. But for me the native this place has become poorer.
And talking about and suggesting we need to stop the backslide gets an eye-roll from the enablers.
I moved - sorry, immigrated - to Stockholm end of 2016.
At that time the sensationalist media was reporting on 'no-go zones' - parts of town that even the police were too afraid to go to.
One night I was sitting on the subway when a guy came and sat down opposite a girl, and started telling her he was gonna go check out one of these 'no-go zones'. His destination was östermalm.
"Elegant Östermalm is known for its smart bars and restaurants on Stureplan square, and its cultural venues, such as the Swedish History Museum, displaying Viking weapons. Designer boutiques dot the area near Östermalms Saluhall, a food market known for traditional specialties like gravlax and smoked shrimp. Centered on the imposing National Library of Sweden, tranquil Humlegården park hosts plays in summer."
You can do the same for anywhere. For example Tenderloin:
"Tenderloin in San Francisco is known for its cultural diversity - home to micro-neighborhoods representing the Vietnamese, Thai, Korean, Pakistani, Central Asian, and Yemeni communities. There is a bustling cultural scene with numerous live jazz bars, theaters where bands like The Rolling Stones and Beatles have headlined, and museums highlighting the historical numerous LGBT+ community".
That said, Östermalm didn't feel bad when I visited. I think op is confusing Östermalm and Östberga.
I heard Östermalm correctly - it was a vivid memory and where I worked at the time. Reading about "no-go zones" was fresh in my mind.
I remember thinking "Really? Where the Bentley dealership is?" Good luck finding graffiti there, let alone circumstances rough enough to scare the cops away.
Yea must have been a joke or an actual ignorant tourist. When I was there it seemed the less well off areas tended to be extremely cut off from the rest of Stockholm too.
I made an actual effort to go to Tensta when I was there (it's hard to find good Levantine food in the US) and it definetly felt dislocated. Very much like a purposely created ghetto. Like Visitation Valley and Bayview in San Francisco.
Östermalm is the most bourgeois area in central Stockholm. It’s the kind of place where the weekly supermarket offers are for lobster and caviar instead of chicken breast or potatoes. Certainly not dangerous by any standard. Must’ve been a joke that went over op’s head or a misunderstanding.
I guess it's a joke. Östermalm is very unlikely to be counted as a typical no-go zone. The joke is that every area of town can have weird people after dark
I just took the train into the city, had a burger & beer, and soon I'll train back home. I have zero worries about my safety.
Anyway, the Right party pulled the balance of power from the Left and formed a centre/right coalition more than a year ago, because of all the bad people coming here and doing bad things. Weren't they going to fix this?