I have ADHD but growing up we didn't know that. I threw a lot of tantrums and was yelled at until I cried almost every day. I was grounded for months on end, which is now considered child abuse. In my house yelling was the norm.
My mom decided I must have bipolar disorder just like my grandmother. At age 10 I was put on psychiatric drugs and that persisted for over 20 years. Any time I exhibited any intense emotion I would get yelled at and then it would probably trigger a fight.
As an adult I began to describe my experiences in my own words and doctors quickly undiagnosed me. 2 decades of doctors appointments, drugs, emotional abuse, dismissal, confusion.
I think the last line hits the hardest. So much suffering happened to you and it just happened. I've been through something similar. Took a while for me to realise that people were just doing what they thought was best, but the consequences still remain.
I'm sorry. I'd have a hard time not being angry if I were you. Similar thing happened with my ex. Years of anti-psychotics for absolutely no fking reason. His new doc quickly took him off, and he simply got healthier, never an issue. Such a shame.
ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a strength through learned self-discipline.
People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It’s more of a memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only about a third of the memories are lost. Imagine pouring a glass of milk and half way through you have forgotten you are in the middle of task until there is a mess. The most obvious indicator is misplacing things several times a day. Other indicators include strange repeated behaviors to compensate for memory loss like hiding things in weird locations so you can find them later only to have forgotten that you have hidden things and then run out of those things and not know where they are.
^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20 years.
But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and keys.
I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and discipline.
I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it. Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him, and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take care of himself.
Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled half a dozen countries in a year and haven't lost a single thing. My wallet, my keys, my yubikey, my sunglasses, my backup meds, they have exactly one place they're allowed to be, and they're always there when I go to grab them.
Most ADHD sufferers do not experience apathy but instead intense anxiety as their executive function is at odds with their goals.
It's not a matter of simply thinking your way out of what is a very real, biological disorder. The ADHD brain fundamentally lacks the same dopamine receptors as a normal brain, among other mutations. These mutations have elaborate psychological manifestations.
Some of us are able to improve with sustained practice, but even reaching a state of sustained practice can be a Sisyphean task for many.
Maybe caring wasn't the right word. My point was being pro-active so that otherwise adhd-fueled situations become easier because one has essentially looked ahead for their future-disfunctioning self.
I'm leaving the house, I grab the purse. It cut down multiple-times-a-week adhd-fueled returns home to one a month. Has this cured my ADHD? No! Has it made literally every day of my life easier and more manageable because I'm not stressed about forgetting something, or making my partner late to work? Absolutely!
Another great example is immediately washing dishes after cooking and eating, always. It has to become routine that the sink is not a place for dirty dishes.
Many of my ADHD friends still struggle with this, and I even on occasion will let a few dishes stack up on my desk while working for long bouts of time.
A lot of ADHD issues stem around the delayed reward system getting screwed up, and the best antidote for this is extreme proactiveness, doing everything immediately. It's too easy to wake up, say "I'll brush my teeth in a few minutes" and then hyperfocus for 16 hours straight until you fall asleep.
ADHD is its own worst enemy and building coping mechanisms or changing habits can be incredibly difficult when the nature of the disorder involves difficulty with sticking to new routines. This can be compounded heavily if there is comorbidity with OCD, PTSD, etc.
I’m not sure your experience generalizes like you’re suggesting it does, since adhd is a spectrum of related neurological abnormalities, some of which are not actually improved by medication, telling people to care more isn’t all that helpful.
I do not have ADHD myself but when I do Army stuff I pack a lot of tiny knick knacks into my military uniform. When I started my career I would forget one or two things when leaving for work for the day. I learned to solve for that with a ritual. When I leave my barracks, or house, or hotel room, or whatever I would pat each pocket one by one just as a quick 2 second check. I haven’t needed to do this for more than 15 years but I still do it.
That kind of self-discipline and solution come naturally to people with exceptionally high conscientiousness even if they have minor ADHD. For people with serious ADHD and these kinds of rituals don’t work because the will to consider and apply them is completely absent. It isn’t a personality defect. It’s impaired hardware.
I care. I don't know how I could care more. I beat myself up (mentally and sometimes slightly physically) when I fail to accomplish tasks, because I care.
I have an issue with executive function. And I often hate myself for it. "Caring" has never helped.
I didn't say it's easy but if you make the effort to put something in a consistent place, it will be there later. Some things are that simple, you just have to frame them that way and be proactive.
I used to lose sunglasses monthly, lost my wallet more times than I can count as an adult, missed appointments, constantly had to "go back" for something I'd forgotten or left behind. Constantly.
I have to be more pro-active than other people but I realize I'm just going to get downvoted more for suggesting that ADHD and symptoms are manageable and have workarounds.
> Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled half a dozen countries in a year and haven't lost a single thing. My wallet, my keys, my yubikey, my sunglasses, my backup meds, they have exactly one place they're allowed to be, and they're always there when I go to grab them.
That doesn't mean you care and everyone doesn't, it means you figured out a way to avoid the issue entirely.
Seems a better choice than what my dad does, or everyone else that says "oh I have ADHD".
Yeah, I have ADHD and a purse. Idk why this is somehow a controversial thing to say. I can sit here and say wah, or I can figure out better tools that work for me.
I have a mild enough case I didn’t get diagnosed until grad school and my long term memory is great. I’d crush history tests growing up and struggled more with math due to misreading problems and making sign errors or similar mistakes.
I did have a biology teacher that marked me down because I “didn’t look like I was paying attention” in class because I didn’t look like how most people focus on a lecture, but I retained as much info as anyone.
Yes, I have seen somebody with ADHD fixate on something and the memory issues remain present while actively engaging the subject of fixation. The difference between the compulsive behaviors versus the obsessive behaviors only comes down to motivation and personal interests. This is where the dopamine cycle is impaired either way while in some cases motivation is sufficient to push through the limiting effects of supremely low serotonin. Consider the flip case where a ADHD person absolutely cannot be compelled to do something important because the lack of motivation is a greater driver of behavior than cognitive reasoning can compensate for.
There is a greater than 60% overlap in symptoms between ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder. The distinction is as clear as ADHD is more directly tied to memory issues and ASD is not while ASD is more directly tied to lost processing of social framing and ADHD is not.
During periods of intense focus, there is no shortage of working memory.
Without the intense focus, sure there is a working memory issue. What's actually happening is the working memory is being lost to rapid context switching.
I think research shows the most important genes are involved in producing dopamine. Two of the genes that have been found to be implicated most commonly are DAT1 and DRD4, although others are being discovered all the time.
This means that brain signals are not carried correctly, and the signals may be carried to the wrong part of the brain. This, in part, leads to the well known symptoms of ADHD afaik.
Dopamine is certainly a factor, but low serotonin is at greater distinction. The dopamine cycle exists to regulate task completion and is associated with reward stimulus. Serotonin is associated with mood regulation. In manically depressed persons and persons with advanced ADHD serotonin production is extremely low compared to normal. The primary compensating behavior then is seeking external mood stimulators. For the person in my family with ADHD their drug of choice is anything with large amounts of red dye 40.
Although persons with ADHD have lesser DRD2 and possibly lesser DRD4 receptors using prescribed medication to raise serotonin production reduces the urge to hyper stimulate and thus drives behavior towards a more normal homeostasis, which then also solves for the forgetfulness.
Dopamine is critical because it is what signals thallamic and striatal signals to the prefrontal cortex which is where the executive function deficits originate.
In my experience, it is as often a specific set of genetic traits exposed to a specific set of narcissistic abuse and environmental stressors.
It’s why it tends to show up in early childhood, and ‘get better’ as they get older and learn how to defend themselves and avoid the destructive people and environments that are gaslighting them into doing things that are decompensating for them (actually, for everyone - which is why normal people are often not in those environments). Or not, if they aren’t allowed to leave.
It’s also why the medication ‘stops working’ sometimes - the problem folks in the environment ramp up the abuse until the target is back in the confused/can’t remember what is going on state where they can be controlled.
When in an actually good environment, and directed in a way that they can/will do the things they need to do to take care of themselves appropriately, all of the memory issues, emotional regulation issues, etc. become quite manageable or even disappear. There is often a lot of PTSD though, which requires special help.
The challenge is that when abuse and destruction is present (but ‘not allowed to be seen’) from an early age, people develop protective blind spots for it.
It’s normal and ‘not abuse’, near as they can tell. And narcissistic abuse is all about not being seen - at least by anyone who can or will do anything about it.
And if it’s a parent doing it, seeing it requires rejecting a caregiver and role model - not an easy or often safe thing to do.
Depending on how long it was ongoing though, it could be years or decades to recover.
I concur completely with all lazide has written, and they'd get two upvotes if I had them.
Abuse and neglect in the home is often the genesis of childhood "mental illness" but the industry can do jack-all about the home life of children.
ADHD, bipolar, and PTSD are clusters of disparate symptoms, different with every child. They are chiefly the symptoms which annoy and inconvenience parents, caregivers, school teachers and administrators. Therefore, the drugging of children is oriented toward suppressing and/or eliminating these annoyances so that the people in authority can go about their business without having said authority challenged by uppity children who act out.
My niece was not yet in 8th grade before the Catholic school proposed to drug her as well, and I know full well what sorts of domestic troubles she had undergone throughout her short life. I pity the children who endure such things but can't escape them. What are we going to do, break up 60% of families because their parents suck and they are permanently damaging all their offspring?
It's tragic, and it's left me with the prospect of lifelong therapy to become normal, but there is healing and hope, and people do get better, despite the setbacks and damage caused by drugs, clinics, and hospitalization.
Thank you for adding your experience. I’d also give it two upvotes if I could.
One thing I would like to add - the medication can be the least bad option, if or when the situation is not actually addressable in a useful way otherwise.
When someone has bad pain, unless it meaningfully is helping them to have it, it’s cruel to not give them pain medication. It just makes everything else harder.
Same for ADHD meds.
Untreated ADHD is worse than treated ADHD in every significant metric, at least for any given moment, as fighting an already lost battle against circumstances outside of your control isn’t going to be better than finding a way to somehow tolerate or cope with them.
The challenge comes when the circumstances can actually be addressed in some other way that can actually make things better - leaving, fighting back (successfully!), having an authority figure with the actual strength and resources to actually help instead of making it worse, counter manipulating/lying, finding a way to take ownership of the shit and somehow make it work, etc.
Which, knowing the actual right course of action is nearly impossible for the person being victimized, and is rarely in the list of options being considered by said authority figure when it’s a kid involved. But, kids are resourceful and while we may not be happy with how they do it, for all of human history they’ve been figuring it out - or dying trying.
Without that, the medication just leaves someone stuck in a broken situation, albeit better functioning. Which is better than being stuck and not! But less than ideal.
ADHD treatment has so much better long term outcomes when it’s medication + therapy, rather than either just on its own, and I think that is why.
The medication can give someone the strength (chemical or not, it still helps) to actually do the other work and see it through. Even when it’s really hard and scary.
Nope, never saw his stuff. This is all purely from direct personal experience with 10+ ADHD diagnosed folks who I know personally. It’s quite striking what the patterns are when you see them.
That said, nature vs nurture, selection bias, etc.
You want to watch Dr. Russel Barkley's videos. He does the best job of explaining ADHD as an executive function deficit, not an 'attention' deficit. https://www.youtube.com/@russellbarkleyphd2023
There is a world of difference between slow study and a severe brain impairment that blocks the ability to function normally in the world. For example perhaps there is a minor focus or motivation issue where you would rather be doing something else and so find the studying less of a priority. A person with severe ADHD may forget what they were doing while they are actively engaged doing it. Imagine driving a car and your mind drifts and you begin to focus on something at the side of the road now completely unaware of what is in front of you as you continue driving forward without reservation. A person who struggles to study, on the otherwise, does not suddenly become unaware they are holding an open book in front of their face.
If you are concerned that you might have ADHD I recommend an evaluation by general physician.
The causes are multiple and not clearly established, but it is clearly neurological (hardware) and not a personality defect. This is established through research into the brain and interactions with certain medications. Some examples of hardware disruption include extremely low production of neurotransmitters and extremely few neurotransmitter receivers.
Can also be malfunctioning hardware.
Can even be externally induced.
Transient bouts of attention deficit with perfectly normal MRI would indicate that something else is happening.
An MRI cannot diagnose ADHD in an individual. MRI's can see trends and variations in brains of large populations. For example, an MRI of 1,000 people with ADHD might show a different sized <insert brain parts> compared to 1,000 people without ADHD.
However, a single person could have the same size <insert brain parts> as the average of 1,000 ADHD people and still not have ADHD, and a person could not have a significantly different sized <insert brain parts> and have ADHD.
To date, there is not a single biological marker nor empirical test that can be used to diagnose ADHD beyond a reasonable doubt.
I have just learned from observation, speaking with counselors, and watching videos online. I have a family member with severe ADHD.
You might want to visit with a doctor to be evaluated for ADHD. There are medications that help, but they differ by person and medication with side effects.
FSIQ was a bad way of identifying the cohort. They should break it up into GAI, WMI, and PSI instead since the key indications of cognitive capacity are in GAI and the WMI and PSI just show the area of deficit. I.E. a 104 FSIQ may be the same as a 110 FSIQ for neurotypical since the WMI and PSI are probably 1/2 to 1 standard deviation below the mean for the ADHD cohort. I know several gifted students with an FSIQ of around 110, so that also introduces the issue of gifted behaviors which can also present as inattentiveness. FSIQ 110, GAI >> 130, WMI and PSI below 85. This assumes they used something like WISC IV. Also, ignoring PSI and focussing on WMI kind of misses half the issue. It all comes down to executive function loading.
What you are describing is similar to how I was diagnosed.
I took the WAIS-IV and was told that I do not "technically" have an IQ since I have ADHD and the tests are not designed nor calibrated to measure intelligence in populations other than neurotypicals. Doesn't mean I cannot be given a score, just that it's not technically "accurate."
I am quite dubious of IQ testing to begin with. But for the sake of adding to your comment, I had 2.5 standard deviations between some of my scores. I was significantly stronger in my VCI and PRI than my WMI and PSI.
Yup. That's a good indicator of disability. My son is 3 SD between his VCI and his PSI. I've seen a lot of gifted kids with this kind of span. I received the same explanation when I was younger given that my scores were all over the place on the WAIS and Ravens. I've seen kids with FSIQ of 140 and a PSI in the high 80s. You should be able to take your VCI and PRI and get a composite score called your GAI, which correlates stronger with G than FSIQ when there's disability. IQ is measuring something that correlates with life outcomes. It is called G. It is not necessarily intelligence, nor does it indicate that it is a causative agent for life outcomes, only that there is a strong correlation. The old ASVABs and SATs used to correlate strongly with 'G' as well. VCI and PRI are the back of the brain, and WMI and PSI are the very front. It is the front of the brain that makes us human. It is why ADHD and other frontal brain disorders are in reality drastically life altering. People don't realize just how bad of a disability ADHD is.
My mom decided I must have bipolar disorder just like my grandmother. At age 10 I was put on psychiatric drugs and that persisted for over 20 years. Any time I exhibited any intense emotion I would get yelled at and then it would probably trigger a fight.
As an adult I began to describe my experiences in my own words and doctors quickly undiagnosed me. 2 decades of doctors appointments, drugs, emotional abuse, dismissal, confusion.
There is no moral to this story.