My thoughts exactly. But I do think that if I would put over $2000 to a laptop I wouldn't like the fact that I'm not able to upgrade memory after few years. It's ok with devices like iPad but $2000 laptop is a device that you expect to use a bit longer.
Apple expects consumers to replace hardware every two to three years. Often this is encouraged by their practice of only supporting a single version of their operating system and their practice of making new versions of their operating systems incompatible with hardware more than a few years old.
To put it another way, Apple doesn't want you to keep your Macbook for three years because there's no money in that, just support costs.
Sure, Apple wants to sell as much as possible. But it's unclear to me if this decision has that effect. Not if many people are like me.
Knowing that there are upgrade options makes it easier for me to pay up for an expensive machine. But years later I never actually buy an upgrade because it feels like a waste to put money into a machine that is nearing the end of its useful life anyway.
I don't even want to know how much money I have wasted on buying "future proof" hardware. So if anything I have to thank Apple for making this perfectly clear to me and saving me from sinking $2200 into a laptop ;-)
I was gonna but this and install Windoze on it... not sure i'll bother now and save myself around £1000 on a similar spec Dell (albeit without the slimness and super sharp screen)
More and more os x and the Mac "platform" is moving towards a becoming a crystal prison. They are still the undisputed leader when it comes to quality hardware. But locking down the os and hardware is not going to he good in the long run. I knew this was. I in that's why I got the 17 inch mbp in feb. figured I can have it last for a few more years as can upgrade the ram an hdd to a ssd giving it more life. If the os becomes restrictive then I can always install Linux or windows on the quality hardware.
So's the hardware, I'm not sure why that would matter much.
Battery is already soldered (basically), nobody cares. Aftermarket RAM upgrades only matter insofar as their historically being way overpriced at Apple, this seems avoided for now on the new MBP ($200 for the 16GB upgrade, Crucial asks for $160 for 2x8GB SODIMM so the markup extreme — least of all on a $2200 machine), the HDD -> SSD upgrade is irrelevant as it's already an SSD and if it's the same as the Air (no reason for it not to be), it's a semi-proprietary caseless and low-profile SSD module... for which there are third-party alternatives (or will be, in case the pinout is incompatible with 2011 Air pinout, which would be surprising)
Yes I know but that wasn't the point. The point is that if I now buy the laptop with let's say 8GB because I think I don't need more than that because all I do is code. After 6 months I get assigned to doing work with BIG databases that easily eat 10GB memory. Now I'm stuck with 8GB because it's soldered and even Apple can't upgrade it.
No, I'm buying a Mac because I need a UNIX-based operating system that can run the Adobe Creative Suite.
My fiancee, who is practically hardware illiterate, just installed brand new RAM and a new SSD into her 4-year-old MacBook. If she had originally purchased it with those upgrades, it would have been $500+ extra at the time of purchase. This week, it cost $150 for the parts on Amazon.
User-serviceable operations that don't require completely replacing the computer are important, and will surely affect many people's buying decisions. You don't get to say that everybody who wants a Mac will never want to waste time dicking around with their computer.
You're buying a Mac because you don't like to waste time dicking around with your computer, remember?
And I do like to waste time dealing with backups and Craigslist scammers? I'm buying a Mac because I want a Unix workstation with a solid UI. Lots of MacBook Pro owners are not terrified of screwdrivers.
Has that really been considered 'sound advice' all this time? Getting the best CPU/GPU I could understand, but up until now PC's have been so easily upgradable, that I've never heard someone recommend maxing out the Hard Drive and RAM during the ordering process (unless it was to your average consumer). I've always heard (and likewise, advised my 'power-user' friends) to just buy systems with the baseline HD and RAM options, because those components really tend to be a lot cheaper via third parties...
> I've always heard (and likewise, advised my 'power-user' friends) to just buy systems with the baseline HD and RAM options, because those components really tend to be a lot cheaper via third parties...
Not to mention if you hit your HD limit after a year the bigger drives are going to be drastically cheaper.
I disagree. Sometimes I can afford the best CPU, but it's twice as much as a CPU that's 90% as powerful. It doesn't make sense to buy it, even if I can afford it. I can wait a year or 2 and upgrade and still save money over buying the best.
The same goes for memory, hard drive, and other parts of the computer.
I have a current MBP with both 8GB and 16GB of memory. I found that with 8GB, performance is excellent. With 16GB, I normally have about 6-7GB free - Mac OS X normally uses the rest for a filesystem cache but it doesn't really affect performance that much in my experience. 16GB is going to be enough for quite a while...
Not to mention, the glaring problem people like to ignore when discussing this is the motherboard in the MBP is only going to support so much memory anyway (would not be surprised if it could only support 16gb), so talking about not being able to upgrade it to 32/64/whatever is common then is kind of moot.
I have the late 2011 MBP with 16gb of RAM and I maxed out RAM usage earlier today just with Postbox, Steam, a backgrounded 2Gb VM, a large file copy in forklift and chrome. While that's a rare occurence now, I imagine that over time it will become more common.
Did anyone upgrade their Mac? Secondary market prices for Mac laptops are insanely high. Over the last several years, I've been buying a new MacBook every year. I buy at $1100 and sell around $800. $300 is less than I spend on coffee.
Personally, while I understand why thinness might be great for some, I don't understand how they can sacrifice essential features(exchangeable components and ports(GigE)) for a few mms or grams on a laptop that is clearly marked "Pro". I'd think that exactly pros would be the ones that would make use of these features the most.
It's because Apple realizes that user replaceable components and ports aren't essential features that they make such great laptops. I'm a "pro" in the sense the I do work and coding on my laptop. I haven't used an Ethernet cable in maybe four years. I don't upgrade components, I just buy new machines every year (with the insane secondary market value of MacBooks this isn't even an expensive proposition). I don't want to compromise portability and battery life (remember, a lot of the design techniques to make the machine thinner open up more internal space for battery) for some features I'll rarely I'd ever use.
I appreciate the kind of perspective you have, but I own 3 MBP and I use the ethernet about once a year - normally when doing an initial Time Machine backup. Wireless is sufficient for all day to day tasks in my experience.
* Finally, if it really is a problem, buy the Thunderbolt to GigE adaptor.
Well for a pro laptop... my pro laptop (Thinkpad) is hooked into a docking station right now. My external monitor, some USB drives, and ethernet are plugged into the dock. When I undock, I'm going mobile so I don't need an external monitor, USB hard drives, and I can work on wifi. In my ~3000 person office, this is by far the norm. Access to some systems are locked down on an IP address basis, assuming you'll be plugged into the wall that gives a static address.
So the point is, it might be called the MacBook Pro, but is it really geared towards professional users? Not even AV professionals anymore, with no Firewire and no disc drive.
Finally, if it really is a problem, buy the Thunderbolt to GigE adaptor.
You shouldn't have to buy accessories on a $2200 laptop which come standard on even a $200 netbook.
Every netbook comes with ethernet. Generally not with a disc drive, not because the thickness is a concern but because a disc drive is bigger than a 7" computer.
Thickness is the culprit here for both ethernet and ROM, and this drive to thin machines makes no sense on a laptop marketed for professional users.
You just need to understand that you have become an edge case. The 1%.
People just aren't using Firewire, Optical Drives and Ethernet like they use to. And compromising the entire computer just to satisfy a minority isn't good business. And absolutely isn't Apple's style.
Most things are more expensive when you aren't buying the mainstream option. In your case having to buy the Superdrive, Firewire and GigE adapters.
You just need to understand that you have become an edge case.
It's called the Macbook Pro. Firewire is huge in cameras still. Optical drives are still big in AV work. Ethernet is still important in corporate networks. By default, professionals are not mainstream. This is a 100% consumer laptop. Calling it "Pro" is just disingenuous when there's not a single professional aspect about it.
And they can sell whatever machine they want to sell. The point of this entire thread is the name.
I'm not sure what you're referring to about statistics, as I never offered any statistics. I'd love to take a survey of audio and visual professionals and see how many of them have devices that either stream over Firewire (much more consistent bandwidth than USB2) or burn to disc (slightly less common). Brand new devices might use SD or Thunderbolt, but AV equipment is expensive and not always replaced every time Apple comes up with a new standard.
Carrying around adapters is a solution buts its not fun or elegant. Especially when you don't always need them in the same place.
I think the point is valid. One of the things "pros" need is ports. Ports that hardware assumes you have because its standard on most machines. This thing about ports is that you don't need them unless you do. Maybe you never use ethernet, but a lot of people do. Maybe you need to plug in to set up a router. Maybe a hotel room only has ethernet. Maybe your office environment requires ethernet.
I've been using a mac at work for years and ports have always been a pain. Need to plug into a projector? Connect to a TV? More than 2 USBs? As often as puling out adapters, the solution is use someone else's machine.
I think you need to quantify a lot, as in "a lot of pros need ethernet". I work in a university and I see a lot of laptops and I don't think I've ever seen anyone plug in the ethernet except for very specific situations like LAN parties or DC++ (since people are charged per GB for wireless data over a certain monthly cap). I also work in the entrepreneurial business environment and most people have MBA, netbooks, iPads and other similar devices. It would be interesting to have other technicians opinions on this though.
In the case of the hotel room, yes that is sometimes the case... then again, I guess that is what the adaptors are for. It is the same reason that laptops no longer have 56k modems built in - it simply isn't that common these days. Ethernet on laptops isn't that useful anymore. Wireless is the default.
The challenge in any technology is to balance the realities of the world with the vision for the future. This laptop is clearly designed with the future in mind.
You can always buy the standard macbook pro which does offer all that you wish for (regular ram, GigE, serviceable harddisk) at about the same price point but at an additional 400g weight.
I currently use a Macbook Air which does not offer a GigE port either and I'm doing just fine.
I'm not certain what constitutes a pro these days, but I do some pretty intensive tasks (building large scala projects, data aggregation, etc) and I think this MacBook is just what I need. With thunderbolt I'll be able to dock the laptop to disk arrays, an external monitor/keyboard/mouse, and Ethernet with a single connector. And being thinner and lighter, I won't think twice about taking it on the road.
Single connector, but not single adapter. Daisy chaining also seems error prone. If all the adapters you have to take with you weigh 400g, you haven't really gained anything. Also, having to reattach everything all the time seems like a hassle if you have a lot of external devices to connect(is there a Macbook dock?). This ad satire is about the Air, but i think it sums up me reservations perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnOCUkbix0
I struggle to see this as anything but a planned obsolescence, anti-3rd party power grab given the minute additional space required to use a replaceable RAM stick. The SSD is on an add in board, also between the main board and base.
Unlikely, as the aforementioned SSD add in exists in the same depth. It is also a 3D space so the idea the whole body would need to be increased by the depth of the ram/connector is overly simplistic. If there were issues, they could have persued engineering solutions (different connector? single sided ram?) that could have maintained upgrade-ability.
This is the (top line) pro, not the laptop bought by people who want it because it is silver and has an apple logo. And it is not 'just' third party use, it is no upgrades, ever. So i think plenty of mac pro users would have preferred the imperceivable (<1mm) thickness increase necessary, if it even was.
For most here considering this, I imagine it adds $200 on to the cost, because they will feel the need to top up the extra 8gb to future proof themselves. NB +8gb sodimm is ~$50.
And it is not 'just' third party use, it is no upgrades, ever.
To be fair, there will probably be (unauthorized) third party SSD replacements, and USB3 allows much more flexibility with external upgrades.
I imagine it adds $200 on to the cost, because they will feel the need to top up the extra 8gb to future proof themselves.
Yeah. It's also disappointing that the high end model still only has 8GB standard, but that way Apple guarantees that you have to order through them if you want 16. I'll still do it, because by all accounts the display really is that good. It will likely be my last Apple hardware purchase, assuming that in a few years other PC manufacturers have realized that Apple is on to something with their brilliant strategy of making displays better instead of worse.
That's because you don't care about having a thin, light computer, or you see the trade-off as being not worth it. Other people feel differently. Sorry.
I'd only read about not being able to replace the HDD, but permanent memory modules? I'd say this is news, since I haven't heard of this situation in any other computer in recent memory.
Of course now i read that Mac Airs do the same, so i feel silly. (Edit)
Yeah, the Macbook Airs have done that from the very start. Not sure about how widespread it is overall but both Sony's Vaio Custom Z and the ASUS Zenbook Prime have fixed non-upgradeable RAM.
