I include poor vetting and integration as unchecked immigration if that wasn’t obvious. And do note that I wrote
> people who do not share the majority of the destination’s cultural values
No culture should nor can stay stagnant. But if we allow in people who do not share or wish to share a majority of our cultural values, which vary a lot between European countries as well, then we deteriorate what made our countries lucrative destinations for these people faster than we can maintain it.
It’s not complicated. Why are all those people coming here if all cultures are equal?
> It’s not complicated. Why are all those people coming here if all cultures are equal?
Because they're coming from resource poor countries to those which are richer? Or from regimes that have been captured by an oppressive minority. Or because their nation is being attacked by an aggressive neighbor (or distant empire)?
That's a great soundbite but if you asked e.g. the average British person just before Brexit they'd tell you that they are worried about all the Poles, Bulgarians and Romanians, i.e. other Europeans, coming here, taking our jobs, scrounging wellfare and so on.
I mean, realistically speaking, they'd be bitching about Pakistanis and Indians and Middle Eastern immigrants also, but in 2016 the British voted to exit the European Union, not the Middle Eastern Union. The hint is right there, in the name.
Right, and now UK voters are increasingly opposed to immigration from India, Nigeria, and China. The UK government allowed a large increase in legal immigration, particularly to find more elder care workers. But that appears to be causing a backlash.
Certainly an interesting source of cognitive dissonance. Few would admit it, but in practice I can see many people feeling more strongly about foreigners than humane care for the elderly (we've alredy done a good job at putting them out of sight, out of mind!)
I'm pretty sure US cultural slop destroyed more of my culture in the last 20 years than immigration ever did, and while immigrants are part of the movement for sure (especially English retirees, but also a lot of 2nd/3rd gen migrants from eastern Europe/North Africa), they're not the main driver.
100% I often say to people that the reason for the UK’s loss of culture is not immigration but the fact that we, as British people, stopped being British in pursuit of the ‘American dream’.
Somewhere along the line we stopped looking to our own previous generations (which include European nations as, you know, we’re Europeans) for cultural identity and started following Hollywood as our cultural oracle.
Generations of this has lead to the mess you see unraveling in the UK at the moment.
Following the 'American Dream' in the UK isn't the problem. No one I know in the UK wants that. It's hugely more nuanced than that. Culture requires groups of people with similar views, opinions, and values. And that goes to a very, very, local level. We now have expensive houses, a mobile population, a London-centric economy, and fractured and geographically spread families.
The decline in Christianity in the UK probably has something to do with it, and that in turn is loosely correlated with WWI and WWII. That's also another historic factor - families destroyed, and fewer families and so on.
And then the elephant in the room - London.
Want a job? Move to London or the south east and leave your family behind. Born in the south east? Want to live in the same street as you parents? No chance. Same town? Unlikely. Do you know your neighbours? Maybe. Do you see them in the church any more, or even when you walk down the street?
Culture is alive and well outside of London, despite its drain on the rest of the UK.
Social, and economic mobility is good, but some of the side effects are only now becoming apparent. Successive short-termist poor governance for decades has been the problem.
Not only this, I feel if people in the UK somehow were able to travel back in time and encounter "their culture", they'd feel extremely alienated and maybe even feel a level of disdain. The daily prayers, Bible reading, strict Sabbatarianism and religious festivals would seem completely alien. Without a doubt the modern Muslim or asian immigrant, especially after the first generation, are so much closer to the average UK resident than their traditional culture.
Not a single British person I know has ever pursued the "American dream". In fact all of them have historically been far more negative towards America than I have, myself being Norwegian.
The UK is large, so maybe either of us are just looking into a small bubble not representative of the whole, but the times I've visited the UK in the past, I didn't see much of what you seem to describe. Perhaps in the very center of London and its shopping malls, but those are not representative of the UK whatsoever.
A few Pakistanis moving in down the road doesn't stop British people practicing British culture. The reason they don't can be summarised as laziness and ignorance.
"The pub got turned into a mosque", maybe it did but it wasn't because the Moors invaded fgs. A successful pub gets to carry on being one - if it's not successful, maybe that's because people stopped using it.
Depends how they're influxing. If they're seizing our homes and land by force and taking over our government, sure.
But as far as I can see, they're working for the NHS, running restaurants and shops and so on, and buying/renting homes that come up on the market like everyone else. London's Muslim mayor was elected by an absolute majority even though Muslims are only about 12% of the city's population.
Nobody is stopping Brits from doing Brit stuff - it's our own fault if we choose not to.
Far as I can see, what's done a lot of basic pubs in is a combination of lifestyle changes, people who don't like the smoking ban, and younger people wanting to spend time down the gym instead of drinking.
We all kinda did. There's a clear drift in France too after the 70s. The acceleration of communication, US cultural exports, a strong trend of modernization all led to our current situation. And also part of the reason why there are so many traditionalist movements popping up.
> people who do not share the majority of the destination’s cultural values
No culture should nor can stay stagnant. But if we allow in people who do not share or wish to share a majority of our cultural values, which vary a lot between European countries as well, then we deteriorate what made our countries lucrative destinations for these people faster than we can maintain it.
It’s not complicated. Why are all those people coming here if all cultures are equal?