The issue with radiologists is that on average they are able to spot ~35% of correct diagnoses, while the world's best radiologists ~45%. AI might get us to ~50% which is ~15% better than an average radiologist (who still needs to review it).
Its fine to ask for sources. It's also fine to not give sources when relaying information in freeform comments. It's not fine to ask for sources in the tone you are using though, as though you are annoyed and simply expect sources to always be included with claims. There are better ways of accomplishing your goals.
Someone drops very specific percentages about diagnostic accuracy....numbers that, if true, have serious implications for patient outcomes, and your concern is that I did not ask nicely enough for a source? I could not think of a more HN typical response...
I did not even call the claim false, even if it almost deserve it...I said, essentially ...let's see the references so we can treat this as fact rather than opinion.
What you did is write a longer and more prescriptive comment about my tone than anything anyone has written about the actual substance :-)). You tone policed a one line request for evidence while giving a complete pass to unsourced medical statistics presented as fact.
If we are ranking things that erode discourse quality, I would say you are higher on the list.
Three comments in... and you still have not said a single word about whether radiologists actually catch 35% of diagnoses. But you have found time to call me passive aggressive, entitled, lazy, and immature. For one sentence. Asking for a source...
You are now, multiple comments deep, doing the thing you accuse me of...being more invested in tone than substance.
The lack of self awareness you display is impressive. Grade A troll or bot. As someone who sometimes misses things, I find it mildly interesting when someone is so confidently not on the same page as others. Good luck.
If you give specific numbers then I expect sources. If you give out incredibly bold claims then I also expect sources.
It's one thing to talk casually, in which case I agree with you. But as soon as hard numbers are on the table, it's no longer casual, and if you do not provide sources then the assumption has to be that you pulled the numbers out of your ass and you are not to be trusted.
To get around that, just don't provide numbers and don't speak authoritatively. It's very easy, I don't know why people speak authoritatively if they know they can't back it up.
There's a middle ground here that is a grey area that you seem to be pretending is obviously navigated. You're speaking pretty authoritatively on this by the way. Do you have the moral, propositional logic, and epistemological justification for these claims?
I’m not sure I find this to be a comparable example.
If someone was making an important calculation or decision based on the circumference of the earth, then they would likely want the number cited/confirmed and not just thrown out by a random person that doesn’t pass the smell test. “Radiologists are only right 35% of the time” does not pass the smell test and a cursory search makes the case even worse.
I didn't make any claims, all of that is my opinion. There's literally no claims there. I just said that people who spew out numbers then can't provide a source aren't trustworthy - that's an opinion.
And there's obviously a difference between an established and obvious fact and a BOLD claim. This person made a BOLD claim. And provided numbers. To me, that requires a source.
Yes, there is a middle ground, but this isn't in the middle ground. I think this type of claim requires a source. A different claim, without specific percentages, would not. Or an obvious claim, like the Earth's circumference, also would not.
Maybe radiologist mean something different in my country, but here radiologist don't diagnose (i mean, except you see them for a broken bone or something), oncologist do. I did an observation internship with a radiologist when i was 20 (95% of my family are doctor/nurses/PT, i wanted to know what a degree in physics could help me do in the field, and radiologist was the only path to medecine from my initial formation where i only lost a year, and not two). You spend your time calculating doses, finding patient history, and calibrating machines, it's much more a technician role than a MD. In any case, and even if in the US radiologist diagnose cancer, that's such a small part of their job it shouldn't matter.
^ Knowing this, I would believe the best course of action for a hospital administrator would be to implement a "blind workflow" to reduce risk & lawsuits.
A radiologist should separately review a scan, an AI separately review it, and then combine the 2 results for review.
I worry that rational takes like this end up completely lost in the battle between motivated parties who yell far louder, but have minimal investment in actual outcomes for those who will be depending on these technologies. The debate over self-driving vehicles is another example.
If your original argument was “it could be useful for more difficult/niche observations” then I think most of us wouldn’t have objected.
I also really don’t understand why you still aren’t sharing any links. Is this all LLM-generated without citations or something? Where are you getting your numbers?
