I did 4 years of contracting and by the time I was tired to chasing cheques I had accumulate more pairs of pajamas than I had jeans let alone business casual (and one suit for when I went to meetings.) First place I applied the Director of Tech was wearing a baby blue hoodie with gold gilding and the VP was in a t-shirt, shorts and flip flops, I knew I could get along here. Summers in Canada are terribly short and I don't want to waste them wearing slacks and dress shirt.
and some of "us" don't think how you dress has anything at all to do with being a "grownup". I wear what's comfortable for me: jeans, T-shirt, sneakers. My employer couldn't care less.
Like it or not, personal appearance (including dress, grooming, etc.) speaks volumes about you. Just ask a potential employer (or mate!).
It's about signaling. Sure, some people are able to overcome those filters through outstanding performance elsewhere, but why not give yourself every advantage possible? Why not strive to be the best version of yourself?
In my case, I design things for a living. What does it say about me if I didn't care about my personal appearance? "I care deeply about how things work and look. Yeah, but I couldn't be bothered to put on pants or a clean shirt today"
But to your point, I do agree with you. Do what's comfortable for you. In my case, dressing better (something I've tried to do for the past year or so, after several years of hoodies and ill-fitting jeans) has made me a better, more confident person.
There's a reason I work for an employer where the actual dress code is "yes, you must wear clothes." If my boss has an important meeting, he might put on his really good hoodie that day.
I realize that in many workplace situations it's naive to think "I should be judged on my performance and not my appearance." I just choose to work somewhere that isn't the case.
The psychological factors (e.g. dressing sharp makes you feel better) are certainly valid. If you like wearing nice clothes, by all means. If you work somewhere where your boss dresses up or wears Prada or whatever, and everyone else wears business casual, then you might want to conform a bit if you want to get ahead (or else be deliberately different, but understand the effect it will have).
But let's not pretend it has anything to do with being a "grownup".
There's an immense difference between looking well put-together and wearing a business suit. In fact, wearing a business suit in an unnecessary situation will almost definitely get you on my mental list of Assholes Who Take Themselves (Too) Seriously, and indeed, the real-world correlation has been very strong. Hence why I don't dress like that!
I wear jeans, a hoodie, nice shoes, and a T-shirt to work every day. Admittedly, I'm a grad-student, but I've also done this with real employers. They're a nice pair of jeans, a nice hoodie, and a nice T-shirt. Choosing a casual style doesn't mean looking like some frumpy idiot who pulled clothes out of his bottom drawer.
"In fact, wearing a business suit in an unnecessary situation will almost definitely get you on my mental list of Assholes Who Take Themselves (Too) Seriously, and indeed, the real-world correlation has been very strong."
Interestingly enough, this validates the parent's assertion that people judge others based on what they wear :)
I love suits, and looking sharp. I have been told that I'm the best dressed man in my IT department, and I dress down for work. Then again, best dressed man in IT is almost certainly damning with faint praise.
Then again, I don't like the idea of having to wear a particular set of clothes for a job. I like suits, but I'd get sick of them if I wore them every day. So, to me the fact that a company has a relaxed enough culture to allow employees to wear what they like is a very positive signal, even though I will tend to dress formally on most occasions.
Spot on. Luckily, most of us browsing HN probably don't have to deal with particularly draconian dress codes (and if you do, that sucks, but I hope you're sufficiently well compensated for it).
I just find the "I can't be happy happy hacker unless I'm wearing a hoodie a flip flops" and "you're not a real geek unless you've got the most lustrous scraggly neckbeard" attitude kind of odd.
I think some of that might be a backlash to working in a dress-code enforced environment for a period of time. I know when I left a job years ago to go independent/freelance, I spent a significant amount of time in sweatpants (on a good day) & hoodies. A few years later, I'm happy to put on an ironed shirt, dark jeans, and nice shoes to work at the office or to go meet a client.
For me, there is something to the ritual of grooming & dress that gets me ready to take on the day like nothing else. I just wish it weren't so vilified amongst the hacker set.
[Fun side-effects: people take you more seriously, women (and men) will smile at you, you'll be in a more powerful position when negotiating, service industry workers will (generally) be more accommodating, and you'll always be ready to meet people for dinner or drinks at the drop of a hat. Try it!]
You're right that personal appearance speaks volumes, and that works both ways, which is why many of us here would rather work at a place where people wear jeans and a hoodie instead of suits.
"and some of "us" don't think how you dress has anything at all to do with being a "grownup". "
Are those people autistic, or just idiots? How you dress has nothing to do with being a "grownup"? Sure it doesn't. I see people come into work wearing spiderman pyjamas every day.
Sure I love adult dress up from time to time as well, I get dressed up to go to the orchestra, a wedding, or occasionally formal Fridays. I don't need my neck feeling like its being choked by a tiny midget to produce my best code and I tend to enjoy working places that recognize that. People take me seriously because I have proven that I am worthy of being taken seriously through my work and not because I have a suit.
As a guy who previously wore three piece suits at clients offices, I have to disagree - Only Google Hangout webcam actually drives me to wear clothes - that and the 20 minute walk to work.
No ones saying you have to dress in casual clothes. What were saying is that everyone should get the choice to wear casual or formal. Some organisations don't hold to that and think everyone should have to wear formal.
