I'm excited to get to play Towerfall[0], one of the console's "launch titles", having been released only a couple days ago.
Action games focused on local multiplayer like Towerfall and 0space[1] are the most enjoyable experiences I've had with video games. In my mind, it's games like these which can attract people who otherwise wouldn't be interested in buying a console. That is, when you see games like those being played, it's easy to see who's winning and how, making it much easier to access.
I totally agree, this is hopefully going to be a platform where arcade multiplayer can shine, and I'm looking forward to all the indie games in this area.
Especially 0space, that game is amazing. Samurai Gunn, from the same developer is also very good. Although I haven't heard any rumours of Ouya, I think Gunn is now being ported for Vita (and possibly PS3/4 I suppose)
So I do this whole kickstarter thing and now my console is – well, I don’t even know where. DHL’s tracking is useless, as usual. Then there’s trouble with customs, apparently, that OUYA didn’t seem to have though about. But hey, at least I get a nice apologetic e-mail offering me zilch for compensation. So basically I am no better off than the people who waited and bought it off Amazon, except they got their consoles! This is hugely frustrating. (And not very constructive, I know, please excuse the rant.)
This is of course tongue-in-cheek, but wasn't the point of doing the Kickstarter to support the project, not necessarily to pre-order a console? Sorry, I just find it strange when people expect that they "deserve" certain things for backing a Kickstarter project or that the rewards are "promises" that being broken. (However, I do understand the frustration that it may have been faster/better to not be a backer if your goal was to get a console.)
When the reward value is tied very closely to the amount that is backed, Kickstarter is defacto acting as a store with preorders, despite their protestations.
That's true, but without the backers (or some kind of funding) the project wouldn't come to fruition at all. It may feel like preordering, but it's not and that's important to remember.
>This is of course tongue-in-cheek, but wasn't the point of doing the Kickstarter to support the project, not necessarily to pre-order a console?
It's hard to blame them [0].
>Sorry, I just find it strange when people expect that they "deserve" certain things for backing a Kickstarter project or that the rewards are "promises" that being broken.
In my experience, Kickstarter backers have been remarkably understanding of delays and other project issues - when there's timely, sincere communication about the problems.
Sure, there's no hard contract between backers and creators, but an expectation of good faith isn't "strange", it's perfectly understandable.
I've funded 3 kickstarter projects (not OUYA however) and none of them have even delivered yet. One of them was due last Sept and another in Nov. The third one was due this month but got delayed for another two more. These being hw/sw engineering projects from scratch I can somewhat understand the delays but I'm getting a little impatient.
I've backed over 30 projects, most of which successfully funded. Out of all those projects only one of them has been a really problematic, and a couple more a little more nebulous than I care for. Several have taken quite a bit longer than expected, but did come through in the end. Many are not complete, but the creators make regular updates and seem on track. However, I mostly back playing card projects, which are very straightforward, and generally come through. I think a key to having a successful backer experience on Kickstarter is managing your expectations and avoiding projects that are too big for their creators.
That said I have pretty mixed opinions about the whole Ouya experience so far.
Absolutely. And I would still be waiting patiently except for the fact that this thing is actually being sold in retail now. I don't mind waiting. But I'm annoyed at being "worse off" as a backer.
You and the grandparent apparently still haven't fully grasped what being a backer means: it means you gave those people a gift of $XX to spend on the project, because you think it is cool and hope that they manage to finish it.
You should fully expect to be worse off than the people buying the finished product.
No, see, there’s a trade here. I back a project, and they promise me a reward. In this case, it was pretty specific: “You will get your console before the market does.”
I funded over 15 projects and got everything except the Ouya. I understand that funding is not pre-ordering and i'm a sucker for tinker hardware. I'm most happy so far with the Oculus Rift dev kit. Even though it's not very practical yet, I definitely find it one of the most fun gadgets I ever bought. Playing around with Unity and really 'see' the world you made.
As for the Ouya; I found the communication with them quite horrible so far. You cannot really tell me that 'they are soooo busy' that they cannot just answer mails a lot faster. I mean; they didn't sell that many yet.
(Assuming you mean the Rift) If you can manage to find one you should; it's great stuff if you like that kind of cutting edge gadgets. I'm replaying HL2 with it and I just find myself standing still often and looking around. I also often almost lose my balance (I play standing mostly) because things move under or above me; it's just that good.
I really think I would have the most fun just building things in unity. What I really want to do is build tools that let you build worlds from the inside.
When I found out they were shipping DHL I just assumed it would take 3 weeks from when it got my shipping notice and it did. Any time I've ever had something shipped via DHL it's taken a tremendous amount of time to ship, their tracking codes often fail to work, and things often just plain fail.
My worst experience was when one time I ordered a Lego set from the main Lego site as a gift and it shipped via DHL. It was nearly a week before I got a tracking number. Then it turned out it was shipping (supposedly) from someplace random like Cyprus or Moldova and was still sitting there. Eventually it moved to New York over the course of a couple weeks where it showed no signs of moving. Needless to say I contacted Lego and they just canceled and refunded my order with a brief apology, no questions asked. I had assumed they'd try to figure out what was up and get my order to me somehow, but nope. Oh? Some random DHL shipping thing? It's just a loss and let's move on. And this from Lego, a large, well-respected international brand.
I think Ouya has a problem - their updates and such are too much marketing speak and fake community, not enough authenticity and real engagement.
But I'm also willing to believe that any time DHL is in use, it's basically a given that there will be problems.
I think such a large product launch, these kind of growing pains would be inevitable and so a certain amount of understanding needs to be expected... but still, for folks like you, Ouya should be trying to make things right. Some kind of "sorry, our bad, here let us give you X on the house" freebie would be appropriate. A special shiny limited "sorry it was late" console or an extra gamepad or something.
I really really don't get the part where some early kickstarter backers still haven't seen their consoles shipped...all the while it's selling on Amazon on other retail channels. I just don't get it.
"Backers, I am pissed. Some of you have not yet received your OUYA -- and, to you, I apologize." -- Julie (who usually writes OUYA backer emails)
"Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who haven’t yet received OUYA are international backers. It just takes a lot longer to ship to some countries.... Please accept my personal apology for not yet delivering on our promise." -- Ken, Head of Operations at OUYA
I received the "Your OUYA is on the move" email (with a tracking number) 20 days ago, but here's the thing: my shipping address is in Singapore. Things arrive from Hong Kong via regular airmail within days, not weeks.
They explained that their shipping fulfiller is at fault. They sent the required number of units to the warehouse, they just haven't left the warehouse yet.
The thing that made me think this way is that they claim everything's in order on their end, but they still only sent me the bare package, without the extra controler I've ordered. In a customer service ticket reply, they, however, claim they had to send the console without the extra controler in order to send at least something, and that I'll get the controler in a future shipment.
Bottom line - they can be pissed all they want. They still didn't deliver on their promises.
That's not an excuse. If you're selling thousands of units you need to do test shipments and figure out how long things actually take. And they already delayed retail a month at the last minute, that should be enough time to get shipping worked out.
It's really hard for me to think of a valid excuse for shipments to be significantly delayed for something that was ordered a year in advance. I can think of many valid reasons for production delays; production is hard and unpredictable. Shipping not so much. Maybe a natural disaster.
It was funded a year in advance. "Ordered" a year in advance makes it sound like they had the thing ready and complete and have just been sitting on their asses instead of getting the things built. This was early access--in some cases customized--hardware.
I got mine, I'm not too happy with it, but it was $100. Maybe 6 months from now I can crack it open and fix the major problems with it. But I helped get a company started that is doing something unique. That was worth the $100 alone.
When it comes to shipping delays, and only shipping delays, it does not matter in the slightest when the product was made. What matters is figuring out how to get devices shipped efficiently and legally. Which they utterly failed to do.
And I wish you would have helped a competent android game device company instead of Ouya, but what's done is done.
Who would that be? I'm actually not seeing much difference between Ouya and basically every other company in the world right now. Their customer support sucks? Yeah, so does the majority of companies from people posting on these boards.
Sorry, it would take me far too long to go into the ways Ouya has barely managed to deliver a half-functional product. But as an example, as far as I know gamestick has done a better job and been far more honest about it.
The graphs they were posting should have been 'delivered' not just 'shipped'. Shipping really means delivered to backers. So backers made retail ship possible but will get their consoles well after.
I am within the first #15000 and in the US and still have yet to receive. I had to contact them when they said everything was shipped 100%. Granted at least they acknowledged it in the last update but it does suck.
See the other comment in this thread. It's basically down to the fulfillment company failing. OUYA sent the last of the backer units shipping weeks ago.
I got one through backing them in their kickstarter campaign and sadly I must say its not worth the $99 yet. Software is really bad and lacking apps/games.
You are not the intended audience for the Ouya Kickstarter, because you don't want to create content. You only want to consume.
And that's a great shame, that you took a potential developers place in that order queue (the Oculus Rift suffers this same issue), a developer that is having to wait until retail release to get their hands on a platform they want to publish for.
Kickstarter != Amazon.
An audience of consumers, and bedroom-youtube-reviewers with a short attention span are passing (generally) negative judgement on device that was not meant for them.
No, he didn't. There was over 80,000 units available at the $99 tier alone (they only sold ~34,000). The devices are hardly "developers only", and pretending they are will be a sure way to ensure that consumers will never purchase them.
Ouya sold it as a consumer ready device, not a developer preview. The fault is on them to deliver on their promises or face backlash.
That really doesn't apply to this situation, as their statement was that it wasn't worth the $99 for consumers in a comment section for an article stating that the console is going on sale for consumers.
It also isn't particularly relevant as there was a level that did not sell out at $99 that included an Ouya console, so it's not as if developers were limited by her or him buying it.
Giving the money on Kickstarter is contributing to their development, giving them a gift in the hopes of helping them succeed. If they wanted only devs to get the device early, then they should have setup pre-orders somewhere else.
Bullshit. Literally everything you wrote is wrong (with the exception of Kickstarter != Amazon). And also judgemental in an extremely assholey condescending way.
So tell me, if there are so many developers out of the thirty thousand kickstarted ouyas why are there 150 apps total and almost no ouya-optimized games, let alone exclusives? Plenty of units have been in people's hands, and you could have developed on an android emulator from the day the kickstarter was announced.
while this is certainly true, if you would limit kickstarter-orders to serious developers only, many of the projects would reach far smaller funding amounts or might even fail their funding targets.
In the end this is a device for consumers and it needs to create hype to be successfull, so letting anyone in on the action is the only way to go.
It's actually not true, because they had tiers for developers:
"Developer Special. A first-run OUYA (already rooted so you can just get going), EARLY SDK ACCESS, an extra controller, and we'll help you get started. We'll also help you promote your game for ONE YEAR, and your games will be marked with a FOUNDER EMBLEM."
OUYA isn't perfect, but it's really neat and interesting in general. The idea of a $99 console that plays mobile apps with a decent controller is going to have an impact for sure. It won't likely sell 100 million units, but it will evolve as a platform. It's what the Google TV should have been and it makes me excited for Apple TV + apps.
I backed this project and received my Ouya a few weeks ago. We played it as a family a few times, and then forgot we had it. Overall, decent quality hardware, but the OS was a little slow and awkward. Also not a fan of the way games are presented. It's like downloading demos for XBox Live.
Once I get some more free time I'll play around with it as a developer. Perhaps that's where the true value lies.
I was disappointed they didn't make it easy to leverage existing Android apps. I was looking forward to using some of my favorite android apps on my TV using Ouya (Netflix, TuneIn, podcasts, etc) but since it doesn't come with the Android Market the only solution is to try side-loading (which I just haven't gotten around to trying).
Yep. Every damn time I do a dollar to sterling conversion in my head and think "yeah. I'd buy that" I find out the UK price is higher and my desire to purchase usually evaporates.
(cue a bunch of Aussies saying "you think you've got it bad?")
Aussies? What about Canadians? Sure, we don't pay the same dollar markup either of you do, but there's some goat to be got in finding at least a 10-15% markup on unit pricing before shipping and import taxes when the destination is on the same continent.
Serious question, who would you blame for that? The government for the high tax rate? Or the companies for not including VAT into the advertized price?
I think you misunderstand - after applying the current exchange rate ($99->£64) and 20% VAT (£64->£76.80) we are left with £22.20 difference between the US and UK prices - a 29% hike after taking taxes into account.
This is most definitely down to the seller setting prices higher in the UK, and significantly so. It makes me feel ripped off, so I won't buy one.
They do have to offer a much higher level of warranty in the EU than they do in the US. While I have no idea whether the OUYA team thought of this, I suspect that it impacts the entire electronics industry.
For example, I had a laptop fail on me (years ago) due to a poorly designed motherboard, device fails at about 13 months old of course, manufacturer offers a new mb for close to the cost of a comparable low-mid end laptop. I sign up to a forum and find the thread, add my rant, buy a new laptop and forget about it. Except on the forum thread the european users are claiming that they are getting their laptops fixed free because the manufacturer is obliged to fix product flaws (which this clearly was) for three years. If that is true, then it has to be factored into the price also.
That's very true, we do have a lot of rules in the UK and the EU about things being "fit for purpose" and "reasonable expectations" of how long they should last. There was some muttering recently about that being a very long time indeed (10 years?) for some appliances. And a standard 90 day electronics warranty would not fly here.
I think Apple got into trouble with this recently too, when selling Apple Care it was pointed out to them that people already had a legal right to longer/stronger warranty conditions than Apple were selling them, in some countries.
I would be interested to read a proper evaluation/analysis of the effect this has on pricing levels and profitability of hardware businesses in the EU.
I would be interested to know this myself. Some insight into the $->£ 1:1 conversion would be nice.
I'm not saying there isn't a justification here, it's just I've never heard of one. There may not be one as we all know that price is often best set at what the market will bear, and someone probably decided that it was a good price point for the UK market.
I'm not sure the business rates. According to what I can find, as an individual, I could buy one of these from the US and only be liable for the 20% VAT I've already accounted for, as the electronics->consoles category seems to be exempt from any duty.
I'm not sure if this is true for businesses, finding that info seems to be non-trivial.
--edit-- So far as I can tell (from gov.uk)
"The commodity code for importing is 9504500000.
Importing from outside the EU is subject to a third country duty of 0.00 %."
Heh, and I'm sure we could swallow some or all of the rest of it in postal costs in general, were I to order one for personal import from the US.
BUT if we're examining the £99 price point, I'd assume there would be economies of scale for the importer that's shipping to (for instance) amazon.co.uk, in terms of US->UK shipping. And that's if it is all shipped from the US to the UK, rather than coming from the Chinese manufacturer via the Hong-Kong distributor straight to Britain, in which case the costs should be comparable.
I probably couldn't personally import one from the US for much cheaper than the UK price, but that doesn't mean I can't still feel a bit miffed!
This looks cool. The hardware price is reasonable. Recently I got a GoogleTV stick (MK808) that turns a TV into a computer. It can run most of the Android apps and games. The price is about $45, plus a remote keyboard/mouse about $25. The total price is in the ballpark of Ouya.
I'm curious on how its controller handles touch and mouse-related actions in games.
If you mean physically how it handles it, iirc the black space in between the left and right hand controls on the Ouya pad is a touchpad. It's meant as a fallback controller for cases when an app doesn't support gamepads, so I doubt it's actually comfortable or practical to use.
In another thread it's mentioned that there are different rules selling in various locations. For example, longer warranties. You can't just take a standard US warranty and use it everywhere. That will increase the cost. I lived outside the US for 10 years, and I had to deal with the same thing. You can't just look at duties/taxes/exchange rates, etc.
I've lived in Australia, Canada, the US and various Central and South American Countires. With all that experience, I've learned a very valuable lesson.
Stuff in the US is cheap.
Their consumer culture and lack of public services keeps taxes very low, and prices low to encourage purchases.
Don't be shocked, just think of all the good stuff you have in your country for the taxes you pay.
I got XBMC (libstagefright version) running, but it's really choppy with video even compared to my 5+ year old AMD chip with a bottom of the line (but somewhat recent) nVidia card. UI is also a bit laggy. I'm hoping there will eventually be a more stable and optimized release.
It's also possible maybe I should have used a different version, I guess?
I was having the same issue... I've had fun with the classic platform emulators so far.. but really hoping for more... would have expected a "Media" section, not just "Apps" for media streaming as well. I also am not as nearly impressed as some with the controllers... really stiff buttons.
I sideloaded xbmc and it already works pretty great on the Ouya. They are working on making it a bit more functionally native as I understand but its already a good experience. Highly recommend it.
I gave Kickstarter 150 bucks on August 9th. Still don't have the Ouya. I am a game developer too. If I had it a couple months in advance of the store drop, I might have been able to make something. Grrr.
It seems wrong that an extra controller is half the price of the console itself (including a controller). Even an original Xbox360 controller is cheaper than that.
yeah but that kind of defeats the purpose, doesnt it ? I can do the same with my android phone, hook it up to the TV via Hdmi (or wireless via Miracast) and basically have the Ouya experience. All thats different is their dashboard software which also happens to be not very good.
There are companies doing "Android-on-a-USB-stick" too, which I personally believe is a more straightforward option than how Ouya did it - a big part of the "microconsole" concept is that things get deverticalized, so that the processing hardware, the display, and the controllers can all be sourced from different companies.
Ouya has managed to get people a lot more hyped by being an integrated solution, though, so I guess they have that going for them.
true, but many people interested in the Ouya probably have one anyway. I might still get one as media box, $100 is dirt cheap, sadly its not available in germany yet and more like EUR 100 (=$130) here :/
An Xbox 360 controller is $49.99 (without reductions) [0]. And I'm sure the price will come down over time. The trouble is I think when the console is only twice the price of the controller. So perhaps what your saying is the console is too cheap? :)
This is sad, I got mines about a month ago and backed it with like 24hrs left( think I was in the 6k range). I got an email today about how some backers still don't have there's and now they are blaming DHL, Germany imports and everyone else. I'm not as mad since I lucked up (still haven't played but 10mins since I got mines), but the really need to fix this issue ... it was the backers that made this device any possible.
Ouya could have a chance if the hardware and software was flawless, but reviews suggest it isnt. I can run anything (and more) the Ouya can run from my Smartphone, granted its alot cheaper but its also an extra device while i own a smartphone anyway.
I cant really see this being so successful that developers target the ouya as an independent device as opposed to the android platform as a whole, but i hope i am wrong.
Now, if there only were Android games that did not completely suck. Unfortunately, even emulators (SNES as opposed to NES) work like shit on Android, so it's not even useful for emulation.
