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Mostly pot smokers and non-violent offenders.

Citation needed. My father works in a medium-security prison, and it is exactly as "people imagine".



Put pot smokers and non-violent offenders into prison, and they turn into hardened criminals.


Citation needed. Here, let me Google "prison recidivism non-violent" for you -- a 1997 study which suggests that only about 15% of nonviolent offenders are returned to prison within three years for violent offenses [PDF]:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pnoesp.pdf


You're proving the parent's point?


Isn't 15% is about what you would expect if they were randomly convicted first of a nonviolent offense?


Maybe in America. In my corner of the world it would be way under 1%.


I wouldn't be surprised if it were lower, but I would love to see some real statistics in play.



I suppose it's no surprise that people too lazy to use a search engine would also avoid putting in the effort to click through to the results, when it's so, so much easy just to reach for the downmod arrow. Sigh...

This from the ACLU article:

"In 1998, people convicted of drug offenses constituted almost one-fourth of state prison inmates and over half of the inmates in federal prison. While African Americans reportedly make up 13% of the nation's drug users, they are almost 60% of those in state prisons for drug felonies. "

And this the VERY OPENING of the Atlantic article:

"Correctional officials see danger in prison overcrowding. Others see opportunity. The nearly two million Americans behind bars—the majority of them nonviolent offenders—mean jobs for depressed regions and windfalls for profiteers"


Lmgtfy is kind of snarky, which is why I suspect you're getting downmodded.

Anyways, what exactly are you inferring from this? That those who commit drug felonies are not violent offenders? Even if that were true, your "citations" still don't support the assertion of the gp that "Most people are in prison for pot-smoking and non-violent offenses".


Assertion: "Most people are in prison for pot-smoking and non-violent offenses".

"Most - non-violent offenses".

Quotation: the majority of them nonviolent offenders

majority - nonviolent offenders

I don't know how else to spell it out.


Well, it is an article by a journalist. While I tend to believe this statement I would want to see some hard numbers before committing myself to things like policy decisions (or even going to some sort of protests).


I have friends and family who have worked in minimum security prisons, and they are certainly not what most people imagine nor do they house the types of criminals most people think of when they think of the prison population.

Regarding medium security prisons, I believe you completely.


I've been in minimum security prisons and medium security prisons and just the difference in policies for visitors for the two are vastly different.

The policy that really struck me was that in the medium security prison, chewing gum was contraband for prisoners and visitors (IIRC it was actually a maximum of ~$1000 for bringing in a pack of gum). The reason for this is that the prisoners can use it to clone a key or jam a lock open, which meant potential escape of violent prisoners from secure areas. The staff actually have to check every lock before they insert a key (it jams the pins in the right position, allowing them to insert something as simple as a plastic knife and they're able to open the lock).

Minimum security never had that restriction, it's generally run on an honour system. The prisoners in there have all committed non-violent crimes, and generally they were more polite and respectful than people in the general public. At least that was my experience, there was a lot of polite people in the medium security, but the guards required a 10ft distance between prisoners and visitors at all times, just in case.


I don't have the articles handy, but The Economist had some statistics on prison populations in the US. That's where my information comes from.

IIRC, even China doesn't have as many people in jail as the US.


The Bureau of Justice Statistics contradicts your information.

The official numbers on their homepage show that in 2005, 53% of state inmates were sentenced for violent crimes, versus only 20% for drug crimes.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

Note that the statistics only count the most serious of the offenses for which the person was sentenced, which means that some of the violent offenders may have also been charged with drug crimes.


Suppose every violent crime has a sentence of one year, and every drug crime a sentence of five years. You'll retain drug inmates and lose violent inmates, quickly yielding a situation in which there are more drug inmates than violent inmates.

(This is simply to demonstrate a logical contradiction in your proposed evidence, and is not intended to make a factual argument.)


It's not kosher to complain about a downvote, but this is a logically sound and complete demonstration of why the evidence posted above doesn't actually support the purported claim. It indicates, yes, but it is in no way, shape, or fashion proof. I'm not sure how a correction is liable for downvotes.


Because HN is turning into Digg.


Thank you for the citation, it is informative.


I assume you're talking about this story: http://www.naturalnews.com/021290.html

If so I'd have to dispute it. I do think the U.S. imprisons too many people for drug charges but I also think China and Russia have a lot of people imprisoned "off the books". Also keep in mind the statistics don't tell the whole story. We all know Russia doles out a lot of punishment via hit squad and China, who won't release their capital punishment numbers, admits to executing more people than any other country on earth (though not per capita thanks to Iran)

If China has fewer people in prison because the execute far more people than your argument isn't really a valid one


China executes at most a rounding error of the US prison population. 2005's high of 10,000 is less than half a percent of the current US prison population, and they would need to have been performing at that high for seventy years to hit the US population. Furthermore, they have a billion extra people! Nowhere close to the American rate(!) of imprisonment. (They'd need approximately five times as many their official imprisonment rate 'off the books' to equal US.)


Google "america's one million nonviolent prisoners."




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